The Ref Stop

Teamsheets...what’s the dance?

E

Eddie

Well-Known Member
Level 7 Referee
Had the home team manager moaning to me about teamsheets after the match today because the away team hadn’t submitted one. They away team had a parent running the team in the absence of the manager and I don’t think he knew the procedure....which made two of us!

What’s my responsibility here? I asked the away manager for one before the game...he said he’d sort it, I asked the home manager for his, he said he’d speak to the away team to get theirs and sort it.

Was getting close to KO at this point so I got on with the match. Match ends and I’ve got the home manager ranting on about it to me like he was expecting me to do something?

The away team finally filled the book in with their teamsheet and that was that, I got the impression the home manager is going to complain about it though as he asked for my full name.

So yeah, I’d appreciate if someone could give me an idea about the general process please so I’m better prepared next time.

Cheers.
 
The Ref Stop
This seems to vary locally and from country to country
Where I am, no names, no start game
Which means am biased but the mere thought of starting a game without names and numbers is staggering

Its also compulsary here for opponents to recieve a copy of the other team sheets before ko

So be prepared for conflicting answers, so maybe your own rdo or league sec is the person you need without haste
 
Check competition rules. Lots of youth competitions don’t require team sheets to match officials they just require both teams to check for ringers and registered players so they sort it between them. Adults will be clear normally that a match official has to receive them a set amount of time before kick, no team sheet as Ciley says, no kick-off
 
If no team sheet avail, I check with other team, and if they are ok, then am fine with names numbers on a piece of paper.

One duty of the referee is to ensure only authorised persons enter the field of play. How can you do that without a team line?
How can you ensure only named subs enter the fop?
What do you do if you send off 6 and have to report him and you have to beg to find out who he is, and then risk a false identity
Extreme, but 9 smacks YOU then runs off.......

All prevented with simple procedure of names/numbers pre match
 
Ciley Myrus said:
If no team sheet avail, I check with other team, and if they are ok, then am fine with names numbers on a piece of paper.

One duty of the referee is to ensure only authorised persons enter the field of play. How can you do that without a team line?
How can you ensure only named subs enter the fop?
What do you do if you send off 6 and have to report him and you have to beg to find out who he is, and then risk a false identity
Extreme, but 9 smacks YOU then runs off.......

All prevented with simple procedure of names/numbers pre match
Click to expand...

Thanks Ciley, you make some good points. Do you take the teamsheet off the manager pre-KO or let them keep hold of it and get it back if you require?
 
Eddie said:
Thanks Ciley, you make some good points. Do you take the teamsheet off the manager pre-KO or let them keep hold of it and get it back if you require?
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Again I stress this is only where I am
I keep one copy, other team get one

Giving it back is just asking them to score stuff out etc
 
Ciley Myrus said:
If no team sheet avail, I check with other team, and if they are ok, then am fine with names numbers on a piece of paper.

One duty of the referee is to ensure only authorised persons enter the field of play. How can you do that without a team line?
How can you ensure only named subs enter the fop?
What do you do if you send off 6 and have to report him and you have to beg to find out who he is, and then risk a false identity
Extreme, but 9 smacks YOU then runs off.......

All prevented with simple procedure of names/numbers pre match
Click to expand...

Disagree somewhat it being the referees duty to ensure only authorised personnel enter the FOP. Certainly in my league's, my job into collect the team sheet but it's certainly not up to me to check that the names on them are correct or eligible, that's for the teams to sort and the league. Several times I've had teams come up to me and tell me that they don't think one of the opposition players is registered. I've told them to take this up with the opposition manager and/or with the league, it's nothing to do with the ref.
 
Ben448844 said:
Disagree somewhat it being the referees duty to ensure only authorised personnel enter the FOP. Certainly in my league's, my job into collect the team sheet but it's certainly not up to me to check that the names on them are correct or eligible, that's for the teams to sort and the league. Several times I've had teams come up to me and tell me that they don't think one of the opposition players is registered. I've told them to take this up with the opposition manager and/or with the league, it's nothing to do with the ref.
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You are welcome to disagree with Page 64. of the LOTG.
 
Our policy is if there's no team sheets, the game doesn't start. Full stop.

Competition rules usually states that the home club must provide team sheets, but this is seldom enforced and referees are expected to have their own copies to hand out. (You can, of course, report them for failing to provide one anyway though.)

Don't be like one of the lads here, he started a game with no team sheets, went home, printed out a team sheet and sent it in with only the subs ticked. You can imagine he got a bollocking for that.
 
The answer to your initial question is that there are no general rules, and you need to make sure you know your competition rules before you turn up. If the competition rules say you should have teamsheets handed to you pre-match, I'd be very suspicious of any manager who doesn't want to hand them over! If that's the case, I'd seriously consider refusing to start without them.

On the other hand, if the competition rules say that you are to be passed the sheet at FT, you'll come across incredibly badly and wind the teams up if you turn up and insist on them pre-match.

And if the rules say that team sheets aren't required, you'll look like you don't know what you're doing if you suddenly ask for them - undermiming your authority immediately. There's no shortcut here, you just need to be prepared and do your homework.
 
Haven’t been given a team sheet for a good couple of years now. Only time I see them is if I do a line on a higher league
 
Sheffields Finest said:
It's not really a big thing really, surely we've bigger issues to worry about than blooming team sheets?? Hand balls, offsides and players snogging to name but 3!
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To be honest I don’t think it was a big deal...the home manager made it out to be because they’d just been beat 8-1 and even his U13 players were telling him to ‘stop moaning’ during the game. Sour grapes as the other manager said...after ‘home’ had blanked him post-game.

However that doesn’t excuse me not knowing what I should’ve been doing in regards to the TS. Not looking to make excuses but there’s definitely room for improvement in preparaing new referees...not sure if that’s a county thing or country-wide?

I mentioned it in another thread but my RDO wasn’t forthcoming with any advice when I asked for it...in his words ‘nah mate you’re good to go now, see ya’. This was exactly the type of thing I would’ve expected a bit of direction with.

Will be calling him tomorrow to speak about today as per Cileys advice. Will be joining a RA this week too. Saves me relying on the good people of ref chat for all my queries! 😉
 
You can spot the odd ringer on a team sheet if you book someone and he gives you a different name!

Had one guy hook line and sinker!! He couldn't remember what name he'd given me and the manager gave me a different one too... Facebook solved the mystery and all was reported accordingly!!!
 
Eddie said:
To be honest I don’t think it was a big deal...the home manager made it out to be because they’d just been beat 8-1 and even his U13 players were telling him to ‘stop moaning’ during the game. Sour grapes as the other manager said...after ‘home’ had blanked him post-game.

However that doesn’t excuse me not knowing what I should’ve been doing in regards to the TS. Not looking to make excuses but there’s definitely room for improvement in preparaing new referees...not sure if that’s a county thing or country-wide?

I mentioned it in another thread but my RDO wasn’t forthcoming with any advice when I asked for it...in his words ‘nah mate you’re good to go now, see ya’. This was exactly the type of thing I would’ve expected a bit of direction with.

Will be calling him tomorrow to speak about today as per Cileys advice. Will be joining a RA this week too. Saves me relying on the good people of ref chat for all my queries! 😉
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As I stated and has been shown my some replies, it varies, In Scotland, its no team sheet/names/numbers, no game.
It indeed appears to be different elsewhere
 
RobOda said:
Same in Wales. It has been a serious concern in grassroots this season because a lot of new and for some reason, older referees are not enforcing that...
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Whats the serious concern you speak of, I'd guess over half of games don't have team sheets at grass roots and they carry on with no issues??
You can always get players names off coaches and if you cant the FA will!!
 
This comes totally down to competition rules. If they say that team sheets are compulsory then if one hasn't provided theirs you either delay kick off until they have, or as a minimum get the names of the substitutes as that is really the only requirement in law. Whichever option you take though you must report the late / missing team sheet to the competition straight after the game.

If it is a competition that doesn't have team sheets, and there are lots of them in England, then it is your responsibility as the referee to obtain the names of substitutes before the game.
 
Sheffields Finest said:
You can always get players names off coaches and if you cant the FA will!!
Click to expand...

True, but here team-sheets are mandatory so the serious concern is the fact that referees are not enforcing that rule. I think the main reason teamsheets are mandatory is for eligibility and suspension reasons, but then again, we've had some referees in trouble because they got to a county cup assignment and allowed a team-sheet to be modified/changed at half-time... :wall:
 
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