Team turns up with no player cards

[Letthemplay]

Hi all,

A few weeks ago, in a youth game between undefeated teams there was controversy with the team showing no player cards.

Just to give some background:

Team A (table leaders)
Team B (2nd in table)

Both with equal wins, team A with a lead on GD, hence holding 1 pos.

On match day Team A had player cards but Team B arrived with no player cards.

We discussed this and team B said they would "sort it" so were given till end of game.

The team with no player cards won.
It was a very noisy/fierce game.

Through out the game there was disturbance from parents side...and possibly interfered with play based on angry parents and parents from opposition.

At end of game team B were still unable to produce cards.
Opposition coach strongly felt team B had unregistered players.

League made aware team B were unable to produce cards.

I am not 100% clear on some points, so wonder if anyone would know:

1. Can the game be void before it starts, if a team is unable to show player cards ?

2. As the game has been played, will the winning team keep the points ? Or game void and points lost ?

3. Can parents be asked to leave pitch due to thier behaviour? And if they refuse what actions can be taken ? Would the game be void/cancelled or replayed (without presence of offending parents / all parents).

Thanks

 

[GraemeS]

By "Player Cards" I assume you mean ID cards for the youth players? With respect to your final questions, 1 and 2 will both be in the league rules, with potentially different answers depending what league you're in.

Question 3: Parents shouldn't be on the pitch, full stop. If they try to come on, instruct them off and get the manager to help if needed. And yes, if the manager is unwilling or unable to get them off, or it keeps reoccurring, then that's absolutely grounds to abandon the game.

If what you actually mean is "can they be asked to leave the vicinity of the pitch" then the answer is still the same, but you do need to set your "bar" a little higher. Some comments/feedback should be permitted, but you still don't want to let it go too far. And for that kind of incident I wouldn't even start off by engaging directly with the parent in question - if their shouting is getting disruptive, go to the manager and tell them to get it under control or get the parent to leave. And if it's not working, then abandonment is the final resort.

 

[Letthemplay]

By "Player Cards" I assume you mean ID cards for the youth players? With respect to your final questions, 1 and 2 will both be in the league rules, with potentially different answers depending what league you're in.

Question 3: Parents shouldn't be on the pitch, full stop. If they try to come on, instruct them off and get the manager to help if needed. And yes, if the manager is unwilling or unable to get them off, or it keeps reoccurring, then that's absolutely grounds to abandon the game.

If what you actually mean is "can they be asked to leave the vicinity of the pitch" then the answer is still the same, but you do need to set your "bar" a little higher. Some comments/feedback should be permitted, but you still don't want to let it go too far. And for that kind of incident I wouldn't even start off by engaging directly with the parent in question - if their shouting is getting disruptive, go to the manager and tell them to get it under control or get the parent to leave. And if it's not working, then abandonment is the final resort.

Thanks for your response!
Yes player cards...its all online based now but they can still produce a hard copy with the team details (players name, picture, D.O.B)...or PDF /online version.

If the game has to be abandoned, would it be void...no teams awarded points ? Or is that a league decision?

Thanks

 

[ChasObserverRefDeveloper]

Thanks for your response!
Yes player cards...its all online based now but they can still produce a hard copy with the team details (players name, picture, D.O.B)...or PDF /online version.

If the game has to be abandoned, would it be void...no teams awarded points ? Or is that a league decision?

Thanks

As Graeme pointed out in his reply, the competition rules will dictate the outcome and any penalties.

 

[socal lurker]

Thanks for your response!
Yes player cards...its all online based now but they can still produce a hard copy with the team details (players name, picture, D.O.B)...or PDF /online version.

If the game has to be abandoned, would it be void...no teams awarded points ? Or is that a league decision?

Thanks

Referees don’t make these decisions, leagues do.

the leagues I have worked with player cards all have had a no card, no play, no exceptions, and a referee would be heavily criticized for letting a player play without the pass. (In part because holding onto the pass is a key part of how they manage suspensions for send offs.)

this is a n example of needing to know the rules of competition.

 

[one]

Referees don’t make these decisions, leagues do.

the leagues I have worked with player cards all have had a no card, no play, no exceptions, and a referee would be heavily criticized for letting a player play without the pass. (In part because holding onto the pass is a key part of how they manage suspensions for send offs.)

this is a n example of needing to know the rules of competition.

Do you, as referee, check all player cards before the game?

I've had this as a player, coach and a referee. All covered in the comp rules.

As referee, I didn't worry about it unless raised by teams as a concern. If raised, I did not referee the game if no card player takes part.

As player, in a game we raised concern because we knew the other team had three unregistered players. The game didn't go ahead.

As coach, we suspected the other team had unregistered players. The other coach said they are kids, travelled and should have a game. Knowing this was misused in the past, I agreed on conditions that the ref who turned up wasn't refereeing the game but was getting paid. We ref the game ourself but would not keep record. The other coach was now disinterested but we ended up having a friendly anyway.

 

[Letthemplay]

Referees don’t make these decisions, leagues do.

the leagues I have worked with player cards all have had a no card, no play, no exceptions, and a referee would be heavily criticized for letting a player play without the pass. (In part because holding onto the pass is a key part of how they manage suspensions for send offs.)

this is a n example of needing to know the rules of competition.

Thanks for taking time out and responding.

Would this be the same for all Leagues ? Our league is in the UK (England).

I assume its slightly different based on local regions...but generally very similar.

Coach from team B, (who never had the cards) informed coach from team A, they had unregistered player.. there was a issue over the summer with the online portal used by clubs to register players. But the point remains I guess...they failed to show player cards and also suspicion had unregistered players.

Sigh. Kids football eh.
Anyone would think it's all fun and easy...until they get involved!

 

[Letthemplay]

Do you, as referee, check all player cards before the game?

I've had this as a player, coach and a referee. All covered in the comp rules.

As referee, I didn't worry about it unless raised by teams as a concern. If raised, I did not referee the game if no card player takes part.

As player, in a game we raised concern because we knew the other team had three unregistered players. The game didn't go ahead.

As coach, we suspected the other team had unregistered players. The other coach said they are kids, travelled and should have a game. Knowing this was misused in the past, I agreed on conditions that the ref who turned up wasn't refereeing the game but was getting paid. We ref the game ourself but would not keep record. The other coach was now disinterested but we ended up having a friendly anyway.

Tbh, this has never happened before where team doesn't have cards upon request.

I was under the impression team have till end of game to produce them....which seems fair as it can easily be forgotten...especially if its just 1 coach/manager doing everything.

By end of the game team B did not produce any cards. And team A coach was quiet annoyed especially when they were informed (by Team B coach) they had unregistered player....

But this could be down to system portal issues which caused a problem with registering players over the summer.

However...its simple...if player is not registered...they can't play.

It's with the league now to decide...but I just wanted to up my knowledge about whether match could be cancelled (points awared to opposition team), rescheduled ...or team provided more time (till end of game) to provide missing player ID cards.

This game was played, team with no cards won, losing team not happy (no longer leaders).

 

[JamesL]

It's with the league now to decide...but I just wanted to up my knowledge about whether match could be cancelled (points awared to opposition team), rescheduled ...or team provided more time (till end of game) to provide missing player ID cards.

You only need to know whether the match is played, or not. Anything after that, as a referee, is inconsequential and for the league committee to decide.


Thinking back (fair few years now) to when I did Juniour football this was in the Timperley and district Juniour the teams would line up for the respect handshake and the coaches would check the other teams cards.
If I recall, it was no cards = no game.

.

Sigh. Kids football eh.
Anyone would think it's all fun and easy...until they get involved!

This really is how it should be.
For some reason there are coaches that take it all extremely seriously and parents a like and create a less than ideal environment for kids to play and enjoy themselves.

We wonder why there are dwindling numbers of participation - I suspect this is likely a contributing factor.

 

[RustyRef]

The only way you would get involved in something like this is putting on your match report to the league that the game was played under protest. The league might then ask you to clarify some things, but on the day just tell the clubs that you are just there to referee the game, you can't get involved in disputes over player eligibility.

Its the same with abandoned games, clubs will almost always ask if they will get awarded the points. Just say that it isn't your decision, I'm aware of many cases where referees have said they will get the points then it has all kicked off when the league has decided to replay the game.

 

[socal lurker]

Do you, as referee, check all player cards before the game?

Yes--in the places I've reffed and played that have player cards, the ref is expected to check the cards for all players (and coaches), and if someone doesn't have a proper card, they don't play (or coach).

Thanks for taking time out and responding.

Would this be the same for all Leagues ? Our league is in the UK (England).

It's a question of the rules the league has in place. Leagues can make wildly different rules on some things.

 

[RustyRef]

It's a question of the rules the league has in place. Leagues can make wildly different rules on some things.

Not in England they can't, leagues have to adopt a standard code of rules where only some things can be modified, and if they don't adopt it they don't get sanctioned.

 

[Kent Ref]

In the leagues i do where cards are required the rule is clear - no ID cards = no game.

 

[Trip]

When I refereed in a youth league (Hertforshire England) I was told not to get involved in the cards exchange at all - that was down to the coaches and the league.

I am now a youth coach. It's my first season and I'm doing U9s. I have all the cards for my team and so far I've been asked to produce them once out of seven league matches.

In my most recent game the opposition turned up with 6 players (it's 7-a-side) so we let them have an older sibling play in a bib. I mean what's the alternative? Play against 6? We only had 7 ourselves or we would have lent them a player.

 

[Southerner In The North]

I think some CFA regard failure to produce cards as grounds to remove sanctioning of the game .

 

[Letthemplay]

Seems there are slightly different rules depending on where the Leagues are based.
But most feel + believe game should be call off.

If game is called off in this scenario, is the game rescheduled or does the match become void and points awarded to opposition ?

 

[socal lurker]

If game is called off in this scenario, is the game rescheduled or does the match become void and points awarded to opposition ?

Not the ref's problem. If the ROC say no game without passes, the R's job is just to leave and file the report and let the league sort it out. (I would think it is generally going to be a forfeit, but not our problem.)