Swearing u18 games

[Ori]

I mainly ref under 18 games and would like some advice on swearing.

Before each game, I tell both managers and players that I won’t tolerate swearing at any official.

I generally shout out language if I think swearing is getting out of hand, but on occasion I get managers using very colourful language at his own players and I usually point out that it’s an u18 game and it isn’t appropriate.

Can I caution the manager for swearing at his own players?

What are refs here general view on swearing on the pitch?

 

[santa sangria]

There are lots of threads on this. Context and your tolerance will vary.

Good advice is avoid ultimatums - it can only end badly for you when a player says “oh sh**” to themself and you don’t card and the opponents use it against you.

I’m not so sure it’s great in the pre-match to be honest - unless your league or these teams have specific problems.

But you are right to act. Aggressive swearing at an official is easy to class as OFFINABUS. But mild swearing at own player, maybe handled by a polite verbal warning at the next break in play. In between though will vary!

When you warn about language make sure everyone understands - use body language, fingers etc. so everyone gets it.

 

[Ori]

thanks for advice.

I use some discretion. I’m not a fan of bullying and some kids know each other from school and there was a lot of mocking/bullying going on which I also intervened which I know isn’t my remit as ref, bus is my remit under child safeguarding.

 

[DJIC]

Others might disagree, but I have threatened to sin bin if inappropriate language is used on the pitch if not directed at me.

I explain, I will sin bin if you do not respect my instruction & you continue to use that language across the pitch, so the whole area can hear it. We have children on the sidelines.

• dissent by word or action including:
  • throwing/kicking drinks bottles or other objects
  • action(s) which show(s) a clear lack of respect for the match official(s) e.g. sarcastic clapping

 

[ChasObserverRefDeveloper]

Others might disagree, but I have threatened to sin bin if inappropriate language is used on the pitch if not directed at me.

I explain, I will sin bin if you do not respect my instruction & you continue to use that language across the pitch, so the whole area can hear it. We have children on the sidelines.

• dissent by word or action including:
  • throwing/kicking drinks bottles or other objects
  • action(s) which show(s) a clear lack of respect for the match official(s) e.g. sarcastic clapping

I will disagree. O/I/A language and/or actions are routinely ignored by too many officials, but should result in a dismissal if directed.
The soft option of a sin bin is wrong in law.
Many on here disagree, this being a subject discussed many times.

 

[RustyRef]

Others might disagree, but I have threatened to sin bin if inappropriate language is used on the pitch if not directed at me.

I explain, I will sin bin if you do not respect my instruction & you continue to use that language across the pitch, so the whole area can hear it. We have children on the sidelines.

• dissent by word or action including:
  • throwing/kicking drinks bottles or other objects
  • action(s) which show(s) a clear lack of respect for the match official(s) e.g. sarcastic clapping

Dissent is defined in the laws as against a match official. If it isn't directed to you it cannot be dissent, so a sin bin would be completely incorrect in law.

 

[socal lurker]

I’m not in the UK, so take my advice with a grain of salt. When I do u16/u19 Games, I will often say to a player “better word choice please” when language is not worthy of a card but I don’t want it to get out of hand. That tells players I noticed, I don’t like it, I’m not overreacting but it would be good to be more mindful of how they talk. Seems to work for me.

 

[JamesL]

With respect to managers you have a number of options - a caution for:
Persistent unacceptable behaviour (which would have to go via a stepped approach)
acting in a provocative or inflammatory manner

Both of these are stretching the manager offences to their maximum, but options none the less.

Send off for:
using offensive, insulting or abusive language and/or action(s)

And as this is reality you can also choose to do nothing with regards in game sanction.

You raise an important thing here in that this is u18 where the the earlier in the season the vast majority of players will be children (i.e. u18). Therefore even if you choose to do nothing in game its worth reporting this as a safeguarding issue.

Imo, it was enough for you to write on here, it's enough for a safeguarding officer to be made aware. Its down to them to act on the information.

Again, only my opinion, if you're doing a manager for swearing, then we need to be in offinabus territory, but other options are available. Contact is everything, if it's to you then we could also add dissent as a possible option. Just be able to quote the law as to why you issued whatever sanction you issues and you're fine..nothing worse than sending off only to find there's no code for it

Others might disagree, but I have threatened to sin bin if inappropriate language is used on the pitch if not directed at me.

I explain, I will sin bin if you do not respect my instruction & you continue to use that language across the pitch, so the whole area can hear it. We have children on the sidelines.

• dissent by word or action including:
  • throwing/kicking drinks bottles or other objects
  • action(s) which show(s) a clear lack of respect for the match official(s) e.g. sarcastic clapping

Massive disagree here.
@ChasObserverRefDeveloper and I have had debates around this before about what is and isn't OffInAbus and whilst we don't agree, I think we do here. If we are picking folks up around language then we have to be in red card territory. So it's, you're okay with it, of course we can still warn that it's getting to much or we deal with it, and when we deal with it it can only be 1 offence which has 1 outcome.
The amount of times when dealing with dissent, I get "but I didn't swear ref" and it's this kind of approach that perpetuates that

 

[Gamespoiler]

I get why you have this conversation pre match particularly at youth level. Setting your stall out can help with match control. And by telling them about swearing, it can help them to control their emotions and if they can control swearing, then everything else falls into place. But, as soon as someone swears and you don’t pull it, you risk loosing game control.

On the other matter of a coach/manager swearing at a child or children I would disagree with others who say it’s safeguarding. It depends upon the language used of course but swearing by an adult to a 17 year old is not automatically a safeguarding concern. It’s not good practice and you may feel that you need to address it or report it.

Not everyone gets offended by swearing

 

[DJIC]

I will disagree. O/I/A language and/or actions are routinely ignored by too many officials, but should result in a dismissal if directed.
The soft option of a sin bin is wrong in law.
Many on here disagree, this being a subject discussed many times.

That’s the challenge if colourful language, isn’t offensive, insulting or abusive to the referee then a red card isn’t an option unless it is directed at the referee.

I loosely called dissent, on the basis continued use of language is a clear lack of respect for match official, when he/she has requested you refrain from using said language.

• action(s) which show(s) a clear lack of respect for the match official(s) e.g. sarcastic clapping

but accept law might suggest action is something physical as opposed to poor behaviour.

 

[Kes]

That’s the challenge if colourful language, isn’t offensive, insulting or abusive to the referee then a red card isn’t an option unless it is directed at the referee.

I loosely called dissent, on the basis continued use of language is a clear lack of respect for match official, when he/she has requested you refrain from using said language.

• action(s) which show(s) a clear lack of respect for the match official(s) e.g. sarcastic clapping

but accept law might suggest action is something physical as opposed to poor behaviour.

You can't just make it up as you go along mate.

Sin bins are for dissent (towards a match official) only.

And this ain't it.

 

[ChasObserverRefDeveloper]

That’s the challenge if colourful language, isn’t offensive, insulting or abusive to the referee then a red card isn’t an option unless it is directed at the referee.

I loosely called dissent, on the basis continued use of language is a clear lack of respect for match official, when he/she has requested you refrain from using said language.

• action(s) which show(s) a clear lack of respect for the match official(s) e.g. sarcastic clapping

but accept law might suggest action is something physical as opposed to poor behaviour.

You will find that your first paragraph is incorrect - a player using O/I/A language and/or actions is committing a dismissal offence. There is no reference in Law 12 to it being required to be aimed at the referee.
As an example, if a player makes an obscene gesture to the opposition coach, red card.
If a player uses loud offensive language to an opponent who laughed at him, red card.

 

[Ori]

Firstly, thanks for all the advice.

So I just brushed up on law 12. It doesn’t actually say that foul and abusive language has to be aimed at an official for a red card.

I think how I would handle it in future is have a word with coach and explain that I won’t tolerate this kind of language on my pitch.

It’s one thing a player going oh ****, quite another a full tirade of foul and a shive language.

Next question, how do you guys deal with linesman who coach from the line?
It’s something that happens a lot in under 18 and under 16 games. The parent running the line is giving them instructions to push up etc…..

I’ve handled it by making it clear at the start that you aren’t there to coach and if I catch you doing it, I’ll ask for you to be replaced or your team won’t have a linesman.

Any advice in that one?

 

[RustyRef]

Never, ever say "on my pitch", that will immediately rile people to a whole new level. It isn't your pitch, you are being paid to provide a service on a pitch that has been paid for by the home club.

All that SCoR says is that clubs have to provide a CAR, it doesn't say anything about them coaching. I personally don't have a problem with them coaching, they are there doing you a favour, not being paid, and it really isn't what they are at the ground for. If it crosses a line, e.g. they are getting abusive or not being honest on the offsides, then you deal with it if and when it happens.

 

[Ori]

Never, ever say "on my pitch", that will immediately rile people to a whole new level. It isn't your pitch, you are being paid to provide a service on a pitch that has been paid for by the home club.

All that SCoR says is that clubs have to provide a CAR, it doesn't say anything about them coaching. I personally don't have a problem with them coaching, they are there doing you a favour, not being paid, and it really isn't what they are at the ground for. If it crosses a line, e.g. they are getting abusive or not being honest on the offsides, then you deal with it if and when it happens.

Agreed about my pitch. I just the pitch. More of a thought error while typing.

When I did my ref course it was made clear that coaching by a linesman is a no no.
It’s an unfair advantage and it’s not what their job is at the line.
You can’t have a match official helping players.

 

[RustyRef]

Agreed about my pitch. I just the pitch. More of a thought error while typing.

When I did my ref course it was made clear that coaching by a linesman is a no no.
It’s an unfair advantage and it’s not what their job is at the line.
You can’t have a match official helping players.

But they aren't a match official. There has to be an element of pragmatism, if it is just general coaching let them get on with it. If they are trying to influence the play, e.g. telling the defence to push up then flagging for offside then you need to think about getting involved.

Whoever took your course really doesn't understand the realities of grass roots football.

 

[Ori]

But they aren't a match official. There has to be an element of pragmatism, if it is just general coaching let them get on with it. If they are trying to influence the play, e.g. telling the defence to push up then flagging for offside then you need to think about getting involved.

Whoever took your course really doesn't understand the realities of grass roots football.

That’s what I meant by coaching. Not a “well done chaps”, but “push up lads, you’re playing him onside, chase him, chase him, mark up!”

 

[ARF]

But they aren't a match official. There has to be an element of pragmatism, if it is just general coaching let them get on with it. If they are trying to influence the play, e.g. telling the defence to push up then flagging for offside then you need to think about getting involved.

Whoever took your course really doesn't understand the realities of grass roots football.

If the coaching isn't trying to influence the play, then it's not very good coaching

 

[Kes]

Firstly, thanks for all the advice.

So I just brushed up on law 12. It doesn’t actually say that foul and abusive language has to be aimed at an official for a red card.

I think how I would handle it in future is have a word with coach and explain that I won’t tolerate this kind of language on my pitch.

It’s one thing a player going oh ****, quite another a full tirade of foul and a shive language.

Get out of the habit of saying "foul and abusive language". There's no such thing on a football field. The term is "Offensive, Insulting or Abusive language (or gestures). The LOTG don't mention the word "foul" because it's not an offence to swear. It's the content and manner of delivery that is what determines whether the referee views it as "OFFINABUS".

 

[Gamespoiler]

Most junior leagues have a limit of 2 people allowed pitch side of the barrier with all parents behind it. If someone is running the line, it tends to be one of the coaches and of course they are going to coach whilst carrying that out. The only time I think you can challenge this is if they exceed the number allowed pitch side just to have someone 'running the line'. Then that person can't coach.

But, put it into perspective. It's youth football, is should be about development and the more development they can get, the better. Most of the advice from the side lines though is counter productive and is a hindrance to players learning to think for themselves which is a totally different subject.

I wouldn't worry about it and would ignore it. if the opposition complains that they are exceeding the number allowed pitch side then deal with it or report to the league.