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Sloppy Referee

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In a reverse argument I used to have huge political rows with my Trotskite leftie NUT drone teachers back in the day. They were the scruffy bearded 80s type teachers with no ties. I didn’t seem to argue with the older school suited and booted schoolmaster types. As teachers though they were better teachers than the old guard!
 
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You've not answered my question, which part of turning up a reasonable time before a game, making sure your boots are clean, and that your kit is presentable is "fancy stuff"?
 
zarathustra said:
You've not answered my question, which part of turning up a reasonable time before a game, making sure your boots are clean, and that your kit is presentable is "fancy stuff"?
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I'm also baffled why all the things actually make you a better referee, refereeing is a simple act of judging decisions to the best of your ability to the LOTG, the other stuff is complete window dressing, it has zero effect on the game that develops. You miss 3 penalties or offsides they why would they ever remember that you had a nice tie, shook a few hands and your boots were sparkling, no, you're a crap ref...
 
Sheffields Finest said:
I'm also baffled why all the things actually make you a better referee, refereeing is a simple act of judging decisions to the best of your ability to the LOTG, the other stuff is complete window dressing, it has zero effect on the game that develops. You miss 3 penalties or offsides they why would they ever remember that you had a nice tie, shook a few hands and your boots were sparkling, no, you're a crap ref...
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Is cleaning your boots fancy?
Is making sure your kit is clean fancy?
Is making sure your kit looks presentable i.e. doesn't look like it's been screwed up in the boot of your car for a week fancy?
Is turning up for a game a reasonable amount of time before kick off fancy?

Come on, why are you so against people doing these very basic things, things which take next to no time to do.
 
Sheffields Finest said:
I'm also baffled why all the things actually make you a better referee, refereeing is a simple act of judging decisions to the best of your ability to the LOTG, the other stuff is complete window dressing, it has zero effect on the game that develops. You miss 3 penalties or offsides they why would they ever remember that you had a nice tie, shook a few hands and your boots were sparkling, no, you're a crap ref...
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A lot more to it. Player management, game management, ability to sell decisions... And all of those start the moment you arrive to the park, or even before that.

Surly we are not starting the shirt in/out debate all over again.
 
zarathustra said:
Is cleaning your boots fancy?
Is making sure your kit is clean fancy?
Is making sure your kit looks presentable i.e. doesn't look like it's been screwed up in the boot of your car for a week fancy?
Is turning up for a game a reasonable amount of time before kick off fancy?

Come on, why are you so against people doing these very basic things, things which take next to no time to do.
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All of that 'fancy stuff' is 1% of your mark for me as an assessor..... So, yes, get it right but I'm looking for a good referee not the next new fashion drone... (and I haven't mentioned the shirt thing)_
 
Sheffields Finest said:
All of that 'fancy stuff' is 1% of your mark for me as an assessor..... So, yes, get it right but I'm looking for a good referee not the next new fashion drone... (and I haven't mentioned the shirt thing)_
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So having clean boots makes you a "fashion drone" now does it?

Is there anything you don't have a chip on your shoulder about?
 
Sheffields Finest said:
I'm also baffled why all the things actually make you a better referee, refereeing is a simple act of judging decisions to the best of your ability to the LOTG, the other stuff is complete window dressing, it has zero effect on the game that develops. You miss 3 penalties or offsides they why would they ever remember that you had a nice tie, shook a few hands and your boots were sparkling, no, you're a crap ref...
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If you miss 3 clear penalties and have a terrible time then of course a smart appearance isn't going to help you.

If you have an absolute blinding game, get everything right and don't do anything that a single player can argue with then again, your appearance isn't going to be that relevant.

If you have a pretty normal game, get most decisions right, get caught out once or twice on 50:50 throw ins and maybe have a controversial penalty or red card decision at some point, then your presence and aura of authority might be the difference between the match going off the rails and you keeping a lid on it. If I have a game like that (as most of us probably do 9 times out of 10) and it starts to look a bit spicy, I'll take any advantage I can get to keep control. If turning up on time, looking smart, professionally greeting both managers, having loads of time spare to do a professional-looking pitch inspection/warm up and then coming out of my changing room in clean neat kit all add up to make players 10% more likely to accept a tricky decision, I've got no problem doing it.
 
It seems fairly clear that @Sheffields Finest is of the opinion that a referee should attend to first impressions and dress code etc
However, he's indicating that too much emphasis is placed on these things. Now; I'm an 'all the gear' type, but I can also see the point that it's ability in the middle that really counts. Best approach is to tick both boxes, but I maintain my earlier stance that contributors are seeing the same conclusion, just from completely different angles
 
Big Cat said:
It seems fairly clear that @Sheffields Finest is of the opinion that a referee should attend to first impressions and dress code etc
However, he's indicating that too much emphasis is placed on these things. Now; I'm an 'all the gear' type, but I can also see the point that it's ability in the middle that really counts. Best approach is to tick both boxes, but I maintain my earlier stance that contributors are seeing the same conclusion, just from completely different angles
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But all we are saying is that it is reasonable to expect a referee to turn up to games on time with clean and presentable kit.

We aren't saying they need the latest Nike kit, or that they should turn up in top hat and tails.

Just on time with clean presentable kit, that's hardly asking the world.
 
zarathustra said:
But all we are saying is that it is reasonable to expect a referee to turn up to games on time with clean and presentable kit.

We aren't saying they need the latest Nike kit, or that they should turn up in top hat and tails.

Just on time with clean presentable kit, that's hardly asking the world.
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I don't think that's in debate
What is debatable, is just how important appearance is. I happen to give these things a lot of attention, but it's certain that there's some grass roots MIB who are a mess but could show me a thing or two with the whistle. I say 'grass roots' because the promotion path would be covered in flint and glass for any ref who doesn't shape up in the mirror. I sense that's what gives Sheff the hump, that having all the gear and good admin is essential for promo candidates. So I reckon our retired colleague is having a dig at what the ladder expects before a ball is kicked. After-all, it's always been true that the best books are masked by uninspiring covers
 
I should add that I sympathise with the pensioners on the forum in general not least because I see the world through the same face of the prism, but also because I'll be getting my bus pass fairly soon too :old:
 
I’d of humped level 3/4 easy refereeing wise, but I’d of come a cropper with the other stuff expected at those levels, not the appearance or the timekeeping, it would have been the time commitment required and the jumping through hoops paperwork side. I totally respect you guys that see that as your path but from where I stand the referring side is 99% paramount. I’ve seen ‘all the togs’ referees, I’ve also watched car crashes too.

I’ve a decent well paid job so it was a hobby not a career choice. Wages wise refereeing is an appalling choice of career in percentage chance of making any serious money!
 
Sheffields Finest said:
I’d of humped level 3/4 easy refereeing wise, but I’d of come a cropper with the other stuff expected at those levels, not the appearance or the timekeeping, it would have been the time commitment required and the jumping through hoops paperwork side. I totally respect you guys that see that as your path but from where I stand the referring side is 99% paramount. I’ve seen ‘all the togs’ referees, I’ve also watched car crashes too.

I’ve a decent well paid job so it was a hobby not a career choice. Wages wise refereeing is an appalling choice of career in percentage chance of making any serious money!
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How can you possibly say you'd have found refereeing as a level 3 or 4 easy when you've never even tried to get beyond level 7?

I never got a commission when I was in the Army, but using your logic id have found being a colonel easy.
 
zarathustra said:
How can you possibly say you'd have found refereeing as a level 3 or 4 easy when you've never even tried to get beyond level 7?

I never got a commission when I was in the Army, but using your logic id have found being a colonel easy.
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Easy... 🤔
 
JH said:
If you decided to swap AR and 4th would you not find yourself in trouble with the appointments officer?
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Possibly, but then when you let him or her know what the individual did you would hope they would support your decision.
 
Sheffields Finest said:
Easy... 🤔
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So you are saying, without any evidence, that you were in the top 3% of referees of referees in England? I was because I proved it over many years, and I know how bloody hard it was to get to that level and stay there. There will be a lot of very good referees on this forum who will never get to L3 because the competition is immense and you need slices of luck along the way as well. To say you would have easily done it when you made no effort to get beyond L7 is an insult to those referees who spend years or even decades trying and don't make it.
 
It must make you feel good saying you would have found refereeing at level 3/4 easy but didn't want to commit to the time etc required (which is fair enough).

Better than saying, I was a level 7 and never even attempted promotion so have absolutely no idea whether I would have been any good refereeing at a higher level.
 
Sheffields Finest said:
Fashion drone refers to fancy shirts and attire from my side Mr ZaZa👍
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No one on this thread has suggested referees should wear fancy shirts or attire.

Only that referees should turn up a reasonable amount of time before the game and not look like worzel gummage.

Incidentally, I've had plenty of assessments and observations over the last 4 seasons, and one thing that has never been mentioned at any point by anyone? The kit I was wearing.

You have no idea what emphasis is placed on the kit people wear, so I don't understand why you bang on about it so much.
 
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