Sin Bins

[Tino Best]

In the youth leagues I ref in there are going to be a few players waiting on the sidelines if it comes in in my area. Dissent is my most used caution at youth.

 

[GraemeS]

My point is out of all the things that need a sin bin in youth football it’s rather odd that dissent has been focused on.

Also if a child is cautioned twice for dissent it seems rather odd that he’s then allowed to be substituted.. it seems a contradiction to me, he gets binned for dissent then doesn’t learn from his first punishment & gets binned again when he should be getting a red card & then guess what tell you what little fella aim dissent at me for a third time & although you will play no further part in the game you won’t have to deal with letting your team down going to 10 men I’ll allow you to be substituted.

I don’t know what the theory is or what message they are trying to get accross to kids but the only thing I can see is your allowing a child to commit three cautionable offences without actually sending him off or putting his team down to 10 men, in my opinion that’s encouraging dissent not preventing it.

You've misunderstood the rules here. If a single player dissents, is sin binned, comes on and dissents again, then that player doesn't get to return. There's no "third time" unless the player who replaces him after the second 10 minute sin bin starts dissenting as well.

 

[lincs22]

After reading about sin-bins in the LOTG, it just seems like a massive over-complication and another headache for the referee. Obviously with anything you could get used to it but I'm glad this isn't used on my leagues. To give a player two yellow cards and the team still being allowed to replace them seems grossly unfair.

It has been discussed that Sin-Bins will be brought into the Standard Code of Rules for the 2019/20 season, for all league below Step 6. I don't have a reference but been at a few meetings where more involved FA persons have mentioned this. I understand that it part of the participation drive /RESPECT from the FA. If anybody has a written quote, it would be useful to share.

 

[Deleted member 3014]

You've misunderstood the rules here. If a single player dissents, is sin binned, comes on and dissents again, then that player doesn't get to return. There's no "third time" unless the player who replaces him after the second 10 minute sin bin starts dissenting as well.

My bad your right, god I’m not a fan of this whole sin bin situation.

I find it so odd the whole thing, why would you be sent to the bin for a second dissent caution & not just red carded like you will be for the rest of your life in adult football, why sin bin someone that can’t return to the field of play, all seems strange that we’re trying to avoid sending someone off how are they to learn or understand the full consequences of there actions if they never see red.

 

[GraemeS]

My bad your right, god I’m not a fan of this whole sin bin situation.

I find it so odd the whole thing, why would you be sent to the bin for a second dissent caution & not just red carded like you will be for the rest of your life in adult football, why sin bin someone that can’t return to the field of play, all seems strange that we’re trying to avoid sending someone off how are they to learn or understand the full consequences of there actions if they never see red.

I think the easiest way to imagine it is to think of dissent as separate from other YC offences. Two yellows for other offences gets you a red. Two yellows for dissent gets you a sin bin followed by an enforced sub. One of each just gets you a tick in each column.

I certainly agree there are a few very odd aspects about it. In particular, the fact that a single dissent caution gets you a harsher punishment than a normal yellow, but a second dissent caution gets you a less harsh punishments is very odd. Are we saying that dissent is a bad offence, a less bad offence or both?

 

[Sheffields Finest]

In the youth leagues I ref in there are going to be a few players waiting on the sidelines if it comes in in my area. Dissent is my most used caution at youth.

I knew certain players who could bring their own deck chair, they were walking cards so defo walking sin bin candidates! It was almost a badge of honour!

 

[Deleted member 3014]

I think the easiest way to imagine it is to think of dissent as separate from other YC offences. Two yellows for other offences gets you a red. Two yellows for dissent gets you a sin bin followed by an enforced sub. One of each just gets you a tick in each column.

I certainly agree there are a few very odd aspects about it. In particular, the fact that a single dissent caution gets you a harsher punishment than a normal yellow, but a second dissent caution gets you a less harsh punishments is very odd. Are we saying that dissent is a bad offence, a less bad offence or both?

Indeed put like that it does seem a contradiction in terms.

But hey this is the FA we’re talking about

 

[Kes]

I personally think the Sin Bin concept is a load of old pants. The FA seem intent on making the whole issue of dissent a separate and ultimately more complicated issue for referees to manage instead of just doing the simple thing and instructing us to clamp down on it using the already-adequate disciplinary measures we have. Instead of giving the Respect campaign more much-needed impetus they decide to go along with something lauded as a success in rugby for different reasons. Football is a simple game, played (mostly) by simple people so the dissent issue should be managed simply: Gob off once and get the warning (if you're lucky). Gob off again and pay the fine. Gob off a third time and off you go.

Annoyed of Somerset.

 

[Sheffields Finest]

I personally think the Sin Bin concept is a load of old pants. The FA seem intent on making the whole issue of dissent a separate and ultimately more complicated issue for referees to manage instead of just doing the simple thing and instructing us to clamp down on it using the already-adequate disciplinary measures we have. Instead of giving the Respect campaign more much-needed impetus they decide to go along with something lauded as a success in rugby for different reasons. Football is a simple game, played (mostly) by simple people so the dissent issue should be managed simply: Gob off once and get the warning (if you're lucky). Gob off again and pay the fine. Gob off a third time and off you go.

Annoyed of Somerset.

Kes, someone hacked your account, that’s Captain Sensible advice!

 

[Peter Grove]

But hey this is the FA we’re talking about

No it's not - it's the IFAB.

High school soccer in the US which has some strange rules had the "soft red" which meant a player could be replaced after getting a 2nd yellow. Thankfully they got rid of that a few years ago.

When was that, CW? I only have copies of the NFHS rules going back a couple of years but it's not in any of the versions I have. Their current system for yellow cards is kind of interesting - any player who is cautioned must be immediately substituted and cannot come back on till the next substitution opportunity (they also have various restrictions on when exactly substitutions can be made). This only works if you have unlimited substitutions, of course.

 

[Deleted member 3014]

No it's not - it's the IFAB.

When was that, CW? I only have copies of the NFHS rules going back a couple of years but it's not in any of the versions I have. Their current system for yellow cards is kind of interesting - any player who is cautioned must be immediately substituted and cannot come back on till the next substitution opportunity (they also have various restrictions on when exactly substitutions can be made). This only works if you have unlimited substitutions, of course.

I had a note from the league explaining it & stating it was a FA initiative.

 

[Peter Grove]

I had a note from the league explaining it & stating it was a FA initiative.

Sin Bins had been suggested by various different people in various different countries before the IFAB, as the statutory body responsible for all amendments to the Laws of the Game, took on the task of writing the protocols that cover their implementation. I'm not sure, but I think UEFA may have actually been the first football governing body to ask for permission to conduct experiments into the use of Sin Bins.

All national associations have a choice of whether to adopt them or not - and which of the two main variations to implement but for the FA to claim it as their 'initiative' if that is what they are indeed doing, strikes me as a little wide of the mark. I haven't seen the note you refer to but I wonder if it's not referring the the FA's 'initiative' in terms of choosing to take up the offer from the IFAB authorising the use of Sin Bins rather than suggesting that they are the ones responsible for the whole thing.

 

[Gary F]

Other than my weekend 11 a side matches, I've been refereeing competitive 5 a side leagues in Cape Town for the past 5 years in which we have a sin bin. The games are 18 minutes each half and a player receiving a yellow (for any yellow card offence) has to leave the field for 5 minutes and his teammates are reduced by 1 player for those 5 minutes. Works an absolute treat!! So far this year I have refereed 139 five a side games and only had to show a yellow card on 3 occasions (twice to the same player!!), and 1 red card. I have to say when I'm refereeing eleven a side at the weekends. I really miss the sin bin.

 

[one]

Other than my weekend 11 a side matches, I've been refereeing competitive 5 a side leagues in Cape Town for the past 5 years in which we have a sin bin. The games are 18 minutes each half and a player receiving a yellow (for any yellow card offence) has to leave the field for 5 minutes and his teammates are reduced by 1 player for those 5 minutes. Works an absolute treat!! So far this year I have refereed 139 five a side games and only had to show a yellow card on 3 occasions (twice to the same player!!), and 1 red card. I have to say when I'm refereeing eleven a side at the weekends. I really miss the sin bin.

Wow, 5 minutes with a player down in a 5 a side is very harsh (makes it a 3 V 4 in the middle). If fact its much harsher than a red card in futsal which is also 5 a side. In futsal you are down a player only for 2 minutes for a red card. And that's provided the other team doesn't score. Once they score, you can have a player back on.

 

[cwyeary]

No it's not - it's the IFAB.

When was that, CW? I only have copies of the NFHS rules going back a couple of years but it's not in any of the versions I have. Their current system for yellow cards is kind of interesting - any player who is cautioned must be immediately substituted and cannot come back on till the next substitution opportunity (they also have various restrictions on when exactly substitutions can be made). This only works if you have unlimited substitutions, of course.

I think it was around 2012. I know some states started ditching it on their own before that.

 

[Peter Grove]

High school soccer in the US which has some strange rules had the "soft red" which meant a player could be replaced after getting a 2nd yellow. Thankfully they got rid of that a few years ago.

OK, I was able to find a reference to the 'soft red' card from 2011 but if it's correct in what it says, the player after receiving a second yellow card still could not be replaced, it was just that they were not liable for a suspension for any subsequent games. The was in contrast to a player receiving a straight red card who would receive a suspension.