Sin Bins
- Thread starter JH
- Start date
D
Deleted member 3014
Guest
I did towards the end of the season, youth footy i refereed around 10 games u15-u18, sin bins are used for dissent I actually never needed it, I had practically no back chat whatsoever.
I’m not sure exactly how the system works I did have a quick read before each game it gets rather confusing & personally I think it’s quite ridiculous.
All cautions for dissent on the field of play must be dealt with by the Sin Bin process.
A player commits another yellow card offence or red card offence during the Sin Bin period cannot take any further part in the game and cannot be substituted.
Commits a non-dissent caution at any time on the field of play in addition to the Sin Bin period will continue to play.
Commits a second dissent on the field of play caution (and no other offences) will receive a second period in the Sin Bin. At the end of that period the player can take no further part in the game, but can be substituted.
Commits a second dissent action and has already had a non-dissent caution will take no further part in the game and cannot be substituted.
So what are we classing as dissent? It leaves you in a tricky situation if a youngster says something border line red & you send him off then you have the sidelines screaming it should be a sin bin.
Also you bin the same player twice for dissent but his team can now sub him for a new player, so where is the punishment in that & where is the red card.
Whatever brain box thought it up needs sacking! I can’t understand the reasoning behind it or the message it’s trying to send out to youngsters.
Basically your sent off (2x dissent) without a red card & your team go back to 11 men.. & this system is designed for what? to prepare kids for eventual adult football? Or confuse the hell out of them the ref & everyone watching!
I’m not sure exactly how the system works I did have a quick read before each game it gets rather confusing & personally I think it’s quite ridiculous.
All cautions for dissent on the field of play must be dealt with by the Sin Bin process.
A player commits another yellow card offence or red card offence during the Sin Bin period cannot take any further part in the game and cannot be substituted.
Commits a non-dissent caution at any time on the field of play in addition to the Sin Bin period will continue to play.
Commits a second dissent on the field of play caution (and no other offences) will receive a second period in the Sin Bin. At the end of that period the player can take no further part in the game, but can be substituted.
Commits a second dissent action and has already had a non-dissent caution will take no further part in the game and cannot be substituted.
So what are we classing as dissent? It leaves you in a tricky situation if a youngster says something border line red & you send him off then you have the sidelines screaming it should be a sin bin.
Also you bin the same player twice for dissent but his team can now sub him for a new player, so where is the punishment in that & where is the red card.
Whatever brain box thought it up needs sacking! I can’t understand the reasoning behind it or the message it’s trying to send out to youngsters.
Basically your sent off (2x dissent) without a red card & your team go back to 11 men.. & this system is designed for what? to prepare kids for eventual adult football? Or confuse the hell out of them the ref & everyone watching!
Last edited by a moderator:
arbitre
Active Member
Been using it all season, it is purely for dissent chez nous, and we use a white card. First offence of dissent by a player = 10 minutes. If after the player returns he commits another dissent offence it is another white card but this time it becomes a red. Have to say it works great. In 55 matches this season used 12 times, and each time the rest of the match has passed without further dissent.
The other caution and send off offences are still just that. That said a player can get a white and a yellow (or yellow and white) in the same match without it becoming a red! That has only happened once to me, white, 5 minutes after returning player commits a bad foul and gets a yellow. Not a word of dissent from him or his colleagues.
I think it is a great idea, although I have been an advocate of it for over 20 years!
The other caution and send off offences are still just that. That said a player can get a white and a yellow (or yellow and white) in the same match without it becoming a red! That has only happened once to me, white, 5 minutes after returning player commits a bad foul and gets a yellow. Not a word of dissent from him or his colleagues.
I think it is a great idea, although I have been an advocate of it for over 20 years!
What happens if you get three or four players in trouble for dissent? Does it need a ref or a Lucky Luck Man to do the timekeeping? In principle, I'm not keen on the approach as I see it as an over-complication
D
Deleted member 3014
Guest
Your not kidding, I’m all for making the game more enjoyable for youngsters & welcome ideas that can help both us & them BUT the thing I don’t get about sin bin for dissent for kids is it’s the one thing I’ve never actually encountered at youth level.
At Adult level it’s constant both direct & indirecty but with kids I’ve hardly heard a word out of them, seems a lot of complication for an offence thats rare imo at that age.
arbitre
Active Member
I find it very easy, you just remember/note the time and 10 minutes later wave the player back on.
I have only once had 2 players in the sin bin at the same time. It came at the start of the season, and was easy to manage. I doubt that mutiple sin-bins will happen often. in my experience the players get the message very quickly and shut up! If someone begins to mouth off, many of his colleagues get him shut up pretty quick!
arbitre
Active Member
I don't understand your point. If there is no dissent then no sin bin.
Surely before you send someone to the sin bin you will have given them a warning, at whatever level. If they continue after the warning then they get 10 minutes.
I do agree, there is little or no dissent from youth players.
D
Deleted member 3014
Guest
My point is out of all the things that need a sin bin in youth football it’s rather odd that dissent has been focused on.
Also if a child is cautioned twice for dissent it seems rather odd that he’s then allowed to be substituted.. it seems a contradiction to me, he gets binned for dissent then doesn’t learn from his first punishment & gets binned again when he should be getting a red card & then guess what tell you what little fella aim dissent at me for a third time & although you will play no further part in the game you won’t have to deal with letting your team down going to 10 men I’ll allow you to be substituted.
I don’t know what the theory is or what message they are trying to get accross to kids but the only thing I can see is your allowing a child to commit three cautionable offences without actually sending him off or putting his team down to 10 men, in my opinion that’s encouraging dissent not preventing it.
MIB
I did 25 youth games this season before issuing the first caution for dissent. However, there are some difficult youth leagues out there...i'm reliably informed
D
Deleted member 3014
Guest
To be honest although I appreciate the league getting me the games towards the end of season when things got quite in my adult league & im all for getting games under my belt to learn I didn’t particularly enjoy the youth footy.
Not as competitive & anything under 16’s was draining no talk on the pitch I refereed an u15’s game last youth game & I kid you not it was silent for 80 mins not a word not a sound, it was so weird I felt like saying something to them but I guess that’s just how some kids games go.
I mean for sure I’ll still ref youth games if asked & if I’m free but I can’t say i particularly enjoyed it I guess it’s just more game time to learn & face different scenarios, with my track record I could certainly do with the ingame situation practice.
D
Deleted member 3014
Guest
I’m sure there is & they won’t get any easier if your enforced to basically let them get away with three cautionable offences without sending them off (my league anyway).
I just feel if dissent is a subject that they felt needed attention it’s sending out a rather odd message.
Glad this one passed me by, on my sundays I could see more on the naughty step than playing some games!
Off subject, but Youth Football in my experience, is only interesting when the kids are decent. Typically, in the top division, regardless of age group. If there's no chirp, no dissent, no disciplinary issues, it's not football. Kids who have nothing to offer typically don't need a referee
D
Deleted member 3014
Guest
I agree I’ve found many games very one sided to the point where I want to coach the boys as the game is going along.
If neither team can really play it’s a bit off puting & dull but hey they pay to play I’m paid to ref & I need all the experience I can get I’ll never turn my nose up at refereeing any game tbh.
But the whole sin bin for dissent situation just seems a little odd, I have a feeling it’s an FA initiative which would explain a lot.
After reading about sin-bins in the LOTG, it just seems like a massive over-complication and another headache for the referee. Obviously with anything you could get used to it but I'm glad this isn't used on my leagues. To give a player two yellow cards and the team still being allowed to replace them seems grossly unfair.
High school soccer in the US which has some strange rules had the "soft red" which meant a player could be replaced after getting a 2nd yellow. Thankfully they got rid of that a few years ago. Now if we could only get rid of the clock counting down to 0:00 and couple other things that high school uses then we'd pretty much have the LOTG.
You always have a clock counting down? Does it cause many problems?
High school soccer in the US plays two 40 minute halves where the half ends when the clock hits zero. The clock stops after goals, injuries, caution/send offs, PKs, and for any reason the referee wants to stop it (such as to talk with a player or if they feel the winning team is excessively subbing).
It's a change from when I use the LOTG in club matches, but it's not really a big issue.
one
RefChat Addict
TBH I wasn't too happy either for the same reasons when I heard our association was going to use it before the season started this year. But it seems to have worked and it relay isn't much of an extra work. Mind you I am used to timing players off (due to refereeing futsal which a send off is one less player for two minutes). If you record the tie of every sanction in your game card (which you should) then its just a matter of getting used to it. And if you forget, the bench is sure to remind you when its close to time.
Our version of sin bin is slightly modified and doesn't give the player an extra chance. Two yellows (dissent or not) and they are off and can't be replaced. It has actually worked quite well. I have only had 4 sin bins in about 20 centres (two in one game).