Sin Bin - Guinea pigs

[Yampy]

How can we expect the club's to support it when some of us aren't willing to? In a year's time, I'll eat my hat if people still have the same opinion

I doubt there will a sea change of opinion and many referees will still be bewildered by the introduction of sin bins. Let's face it, in 12 weeks, never mind 12 months, most of us will be bored to death of the constant harping on about what a brilliant system it is and how it's introduction has changed behaviour in the trial leagues. All of it backed up by statistics and selective quotes to help the cause.
As winter comes, the hot air will cool and the FA will proceed regardless of the opinion many of us hold. By Christmas, they'll have found another diversionary tactic to distract the general populous and come next February, they and IFAB will be rubbing their hands in glee at another 'successful' law change trialed and implemented. That will leave them will just enough time to discuss what they want to see happen in the next tranche of law changes at their annual jolly next March.
Meanwhile, referees still get abused, players still show dissent, discipline remains an issue, managers can accurately count to 10 (minutes) and the Earth keeps revolving.

 

[DB]

Get off your high horse and accept that not everyone agrees with everything you say!

In my opinion (your favourite phrase) if something isn't broke there is no need to try and fix it!

I can only speak for myself.....but I get little to no descent in any game so why bring this ******** in?

Turning and adult game into kids football!

Sorry it took a while to reply... Was getting off my high horse!!!

Dissent is a problem. The stats show that as clear as day. So the governing body are trying to find a way of eradicating it, or at least minimising it.

The problem with most referees that disagree with it is because they are dinosaurs. Old referees with old ways who do not like change. It's 2017 and football is evolving.

I'm certainly not saying that people have to agree with the changes nor like them, but we should support the laws because that is what we are being paid to do. I don't like some of the things I have to do in my job, but I do them because I have to. I don't bitch and moan about it, I just get on with it!

You only speak for yourself because you get little dissent... What about our colleagues around the country that get it on a game by game basis, purely because they haven't a strong enough character to deal with things how you and I would? These are who this change is aimed at. This change is bigger than us.

I don't expect you to think I'm right, I don't expect people to agree with me... But I expect referees to do what they are paid to do - referee in accordance with the Laws Of The Game.

*Jumps back on horse*

 

[Cheshire Ref]

Not entirely accurate. You can be substituted depending on when the player receives the caution and if he has another non dissent caution to his name.

This has to be one of the most ridiculous things i have ever seen in refereeing! How the hell are you supposed to get your head around all that. They will have referee's issuing a caution and then puling this out of their pocket to decide the sanction. I am lost for words!!

 

[Mr Mo]

Sorry it took a while to reply... Was getting off my high horse!!!

Dissent is a problem. The stats show that as clear as day. So the governing body are trying to find a way of eradicating it, or at least minimising it.

The problem with most referees that disagree with it is because they are dinosaurs. Old referees with old ways who do not like change. It's 2017 and football is evolving.

I'm certainly not saying that people have to agree with the changes nor like them, but we should support the laws because that is what we are being paid to do. I don't like some of the things I have to do in my job, but I do them because I have to. I don't bitch and moan about it, I just get on with it!

You only speak for yourself because you get little dissent... What about our colleagues around the country that get it on a game by game basis, purely because they haven't a strong enough character to deal with things how you and I would? These are who this change is aimed at. This change is bigger than us.

I don't expect you to think I'm right, I don't expect people to agree with me... But I expect referees to do what they are paid to do - referee in accordance with the Laws Of The Game.

*Jumps back on horse*

If decent is that big an issue then why the hell is this being implemented at the lowest tier of football????

If you want to see a change, start at the top and watch it cascade down!
S**t does not roll up hill!

 

[DB]

I agree with you.

This has to be one of the most ridiculous things i have ever seen in refereeing! How the hell are you supposed to get your head around all that. They will have referee's issuing a caution and then puling this out of their pocket to decide the sanction. I am lost for words!!

Card skin suppliers have already designed cards to shows this chart, as have match day card manufacturers.

With training and a bit of reading, it really isn't that hard to get your head around.

It would look rubbish if the ref pulled a miniature copy of this graph out to look at it, but it would look less stupid than if he were to get it wrong. It will take time.

I think it's a good thing. But who knows, give it a few weeks and I may be on the same fence as you guys.

 

[Padfoot]

Sorry it took a while to reply... Was getting off my high horse!!!

Dissent is a problem. The stats show that as clear as day. So the governing body are trying to find a way of eradicating it, or at least minimising it.

The problem with most referees that disagree with it is because they are dinosaurs. Old referees with old ways who do not like change. It's 2017 and football is evolving.

I'm certainly not saying that people have to agree with the changes nor like them, but we should support the laws because that is what we are being paid to do. I don't like some of the things I have to do in my job, but I do them because I have to. I don't bitch and moan about it, I just get on with it!

You only speak for yourself because you get little dissent... What about our colleagues around the country that get it on a game by game basis, purely because they haven't a strong enough character to deal with things how you and I would? These are who this change is aimed at. This change is bigger than us.

I don't expect you to think I'm right, I don't expect people to agree with me... But I expect referees to do what they are paid to do - referee in accordance with the Laws Of The Game.

*Jumps back on horse*

The reason dissent is a problem in the first place is because referees are too weak, too scared, too negligent and/or too damn bothered about being popular and protecting club marks........it's because of those weak pathetic colleagues that such a ridiculous idea has been introduced. Supported only by the referees with their tongues up the rectum of their CFA hoping they will climb the greasy shaft a bit easier if they are fawning sycophants because it's easier for them to brown nose than apply themselves on the pitch and do the job properly.

Football is indeed evolving.....into a convoluted mess of half soaked ideas that only the mentally feeble support. Let's face it....if they were mentally strong enough to do the job then dissent wouldn't be a problem in the first place.

The reason people don't think you are right is very very simple........it's because you are wrong!

If referees did what they were paid to do then things like dissent wouldn't be a problem. It's precisely because referees don't do what they are paid that it becomes a problem.....perpetuated by the idiots who advocate "managing" dissent.

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

In my opinion (your favourite phrase) if something isn't broke there is no need to try and fix it!

If you think there isn't a problem with a culture of abuse in this game then you'd be about the only person on this planet who thinks so.....

 

[Mr Mo]

If you think there isn't a problem with a culture of abuse in this game then you'd be about the only person on this planet who thinks so.....

I've never been absused by anyone on a football field and I'm telling you now....I never will!

 

[DB]

The reason dissent is a problem in the first place is because referees are too weak, too scared, too negligent and/or too damn bothered about being popular and protecting club marks........it's because of those weak pathetic colleagues that such a ridiculous idea has been introduced. Supported only by the referees with their tongues up the rectum of their CFA hoping they will climb the greasy shaft a bit easier if they are fawning sycophants because it's easier for them to brown nose than apply themselves on the pitch and do the job properly.

Football is indeed evolving.....into a convoluted mess of half soaked ideas that only the mentally feeble support. Let's face it....if they were mentally strong enough to do the job then dissent wouldn't be a problem in the first place.

The reason people don't think you are right is very very simple........it's because you are wrong!

If referees did what they were paid to do then things like dissent wouldn't be a problem. It's precisely because referees don't do what they are paid that it becomes a problem.....perpetuated by the idiots who advocate "managing" dissent.

"The reason people don't think you are right is very very simple........it's because you are wrong!" - In your opinion.

With regards to your first paragraph, I work very closely with the County FA and have attended these meetings helping to teach the referees and clubs the new system. I'm happy with the level I'm at and have absolutely no desire to climb any higher... So what does that make me?!?

I agree with the first bit of the first paragraph though, I've seen referees being given both barrels, F-words, C-words etc and they've simply buried themselves and taken no action, despite the fact that OFFINABUS would have been the lesser charge the players would receive had it of gone to County!

In many respects of you post Padders, I completely agree with you. Unfortunately the FA is not in the right state to teach character building techniques - so that will always be an issue. 76% of my cautions last season were for dissent. I do not tolerate it at all... Yet I know referees who dished out just as many cards as I who had 10% of those being for dissent... Are they too tolerant or am I too strict? I dunno.

 

[JamesL]

The reason people don't think you are right is very very simple........it's because you are wrong!

So basically everybody is wrong 100% of the time? Because there will always be someone who disagrees with you. I have seen many a time people have thought you aren't right on this forum - does that mean you were wrong? Its a running joke when people are in agreement with you.

I dont know if it is the right or wrong approach. What i believe is that the idea has merit and is worth the trial. But what every trial needs are willing participants, something that appears to be lacking and what I believe will be the ultimate downfall of the idea.

An argument based on character assassination of colleagues whom you've never met nor observed refereeing is, imo, a poor show.

 

[Mr Mo]

So basically everybody is wrong 100% of the time? Because there will always be someone who disagrees with you. I have seen many a time people have thought you aren't right on this forum - does that mean you were wrong? Its a running joke when people are in agreement with you.

I dont know if it is the right or wrong approach. What i believe is that the idea has merit and is worth the trial. But what every trial needs are willing participants, something that appears to be lacking and what I believe will be the ultimate downfall of the idea.

An argument based on character assassination of colleagues whom you've never met nor observed refereeing is, imo, a poor show.

Couldn't have put it better!

 

[DB]

An argument based on character assassination of colleagues whom you've never met nor observed refereeing is, imo, a poor show.

Did you expect anything less from Padders?!?

 

[Padfoot]

Nothing to do with character assassination.......the facts are there for all to see.

Referee's have had the tools to deal with dissent for years......they have chosen not to. Many reasons why, but they all boil down to being too weak to apply the LOTG. Whether it's because they believe that "dissent" is "part of the game"....or "cheap cautions"......or they hide behind "tolerance level" as an excuse for not dealing with it.

Referee's are to blame for the ever increasing rise of dissent....

By introducing a poorly thought out mess, things will not improve. Referees will get more hassle, more grief and quite obviously, more dissent as a result of sin bins at grassroots level.

If you think I am against sin bins.....you would be mostly incorrect......I like the idea of sin bins......but not at grassroots level where the lone referee is going to have to deal with it. The trial should have been at the other end of the pyramid, the sharp pointy end. Much more of an impact would have been made with the sight of Rooney waddling off to a sin bin on MOTD.....then it would be an easy sell on a Sunday morning after a season of it in the Premier League.

A more cynical man than I may well say that the FA have deliberately chosen to introduce it this way round so when it inevitably turns into the festering turd we all know it will be, they can say "oh well, we tried it, it doesn't work" and save themselves the hassle of having to placate the elite teams when their players are having an involuntary 10 minute sit on the naughty step!

 

[santa sangria]

Not entirely accurate. You can be substituted depending on when the player receives the caution and if he has another non dissent caution to his name.

I think this is ridiculous.
Players may well treat this as getting a free pass for dissent. I also agree with GraemeS that this does not necessarily make it easier for refs to sanction dissent.
As mentioned by others, the best thing to do would be to sanction dissent at the top level and run a campaign to change the culture of the game in terms of what can be said to referees.
The 10 yard penalty, or sin bins will not change the underlying culture IMHO until the pros get sanctioned and the leagues, PFA etc. speak up.

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

I've never been absused by anyone on a football field and I'm telling you now....I never will!

So, you're not a referee then, I take it. If you think you're never going to get abused you're either having a laugh or have a really bizarre definition of abuse.

An argument based on character assassination of colleagues whom you've never met nor observed refereeing is, imo, a poor show.

It's his only method of interacting on this forum, sadly. He's a bully. He gets called out on abusing others time and time again.

Players may well treat this as getting a free pass for dissent.

tbf, players already have a free pass for dissent due to the extreme leniency referees already demonstrate.

Heck, referees who have a fairly low tolerance on dissent would demonstrate a much, much higher tolerance than other games would dream of accepting!!

 

[Peter Grove]

I've never been absused by anyone on a football field and I'm telling you now....I never will!

I don't see how you can make such a categorical statement - you can't control whether a player chooses to direct abusive language or behaviour towards you, you can only control your response to it.

 

[Sheffields Finest]

I've been abused on a football field however I had tools in my armoury to deal with said situation in the main!!!
Say what you see, do as you must, don't worry about what they think! It is what it is!!! Enjoy!!

 

[Tino Best]

From what I understood the sin bin was for dissent, surely Foul and abusive language is straight red. No arguments

 

[Sheffields Finest]

Dissent is a light form of abuse.... When dissent becomes OFFINABUS is your call!!!

 

[mike mcgill]

Yeah. Got the email t'other day warning me that my league is part of the pilot. Can't say I'm looking forward to it

hi ross have you had the training on it yet ? referee in the EMCFL POOL but drop down to help out the nsl when I can they are in it and have taken the option of dissent only and baring a few teething problems it looks quite simple mate