A&H

Referee Tone (e.g. Brooks @ Newcastle - VVD DOGSO)

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puddles15

New Member
Here's one that I personally struggle with - I've seen numerous examples either via YouTube or running the line, and now here on Sky Sports (https://www.skysports.com/watch/vid...-isak-foul-listen-to-var-confirm-the-decision) of the way that ref's talk to players.

I appreciate that there's a lot going on and that at PL level stakes are way higher, but at grassroots, it seems to me that ref's can create animosity with players (affecting match control) when they get a bit aggressive. In the clip, Brooks shouts 'GO!' at VVD three or four times, rather remaining calm, which likely aggravated VVDs response, to which he now faces a charge.

Firstly - there's no justification for VVDs language or aggression towards the referee, and I'm not blaming Brooks. It just seems that remaining calm and clear helps you keep your head and not get whipped up with the drama/excitement? I guess I'm just really not a fan of shouting at players. Raising voices, fine. Bit of finger pointing and insisting in very clear language, fine, but surely we shouldn't shout at players?
 
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I find VVDs reaction so weird in the context of a PL game that he knows has VAR that it's difficult to focus on Brooks. VVD should know it's being reviewed - if he genuinely thinks he's not fouled him, all he needs to do is stand there smugly and wait for the decision to be overturned. Or if he's trying his luck and thinking he might be able to pressure the referee into a wrong decision - again, he should know it's not really in the referees hands and that's pointless?

I do find it odd that the idea of VAR doesn't seem to be used as a "match control" tool in the PL. First thing I'd have been doing is going "it's with the boys in Stockley now, let's calm down and wait for them", but there's no attempt to in any way use that as a reason to calm down VVD, he just keeps wandering around ignoring VVD and getting shouted at by him, until he gets the confirmation! It's a little reductive, but I've been docked marks in a 5-4 observation for "allowing" myself to be surrounded and not actively chasing the players away, I wouldn't have expected SG1 officials to just let it happen in the same way.
 
Yeah I thought his tone was needlessly aggressive, I’m not sure if it’s trying to come across as ‘strong’ but to me it just adds fuel to the fire and stood out like a sore thumb when I first saw the clip.

He does pre-warn him though with a ‘if it’s not offside, you’ve got to go immediately’, but I agree, I think you have to be a bit calmer with your voice there.
 
I strongly disagree that the best response is to escalate aggression. There's literally no good reason for anyone to be shouting at anyone else while VAR is doing their job, why indulge that approach?
 
puddles15 said:
Here's one that I personally struggle with - I've seen numerous examples either via YouTube or running the line, and now here on Sky Sports (https://www.skysports.com/watch/vid...-isak-foul-listen-to-var-confirm-the-decision) of the way that ref's talk to players.

I appreciate that there's a lot going on and that at PL level stakes are way higher, but at grassroots, it seems to me that ref's can create animosity with players (affecting match control) when they get a bit aggressive. In the clip, Brooks shouts 'GO!' at VVD three or four times, rather remaining calm, which likely aggravated VVDs response, to which he now faces a charge.

Firstly - there's no justification for VVDs language or aggression towards the referee, and I'm not blaming Brooks. It just seems that remaining calm and clear helps you keep your head and not get whipped up with the drama/excitement? I guess I'm just really not a fan of shouting at players. Raising voices, fine. Bit of finger pointing and insisting in very clear language, fine, but surely we shouldn't shout at players?
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Just being unhappy with the referee saying 3,4×GO and ignoring all the conversation and prior advice shows how divided we are to come to a common decision.
 
The trouble with trying to appear "calm" and unemotional is that it can come across as indifference or even self doubt from a player perspective which in turn invites more criticism and dissent in the moments that follow.
At least by acting in firm and authoritative manner you demonstrate that you're as physically and emotionally engaged in the match (to a point) as the players.
I'd imagine the Newcastle players were more than happy to see him act in this way. Just my own opinion though ...
 
es1 said:
i've no issue with his tone tbh. vvd and other Liverpool players have probably been giving him much worse in the preceding 60 seconds so I'm all for the ref acting like this
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Neither do I. There's been a conception from the media that referees can act in a too matey way with players especially. Also we got to bear in mind, given the crowd noise, maybe Brooks felt he needed to raise his voice so VVD could hear him clearly.
 
Especially when probably called a F C C and an F and a C with a F O R in there for the previous hour. (As we all know how OFFINABUS is “dealt with” at the pyramid’s peak)
 
Have to also remember that the audio would be used in any appeal should VVD appeal his misconduct. If the referee was heard to be being passive it would just help VVD and wouldn't look good on the referee, by decisively telling him to go it gives him less of a leg to stand on.
 
GraemeS said:
I find VVDs reaction so weird in the context of a PL game that he knows has VAR that it's difficult to focus on Brooks. VVD should know it's being reviewed - if he genuinely thinks he's not fouled him, all he needs to do is stand there smugly and wait for the decision to be overturned. Or if he's trying his luck and thinking he might be able to pressure the referee into a wrong decision - again, he should know it's not really in the referees hands and that's pointless?

I do find it odd that the idea of VAR doesn't seem to be used as a "match control" tool in the PL. First thing I'd have been doing is going "it's with the boys in Stockley now, let's calm down and wait for them", but there's no attempt to in any way use that as a reason to calm down VVD, he just keeps wandering around ignoring VVD and getting shouted at by him, until he gets the confirmation! It's a little reductive, but I've been docked marks in a 5-4 observation for "allowing" myself to be surrounded and not actively chasing the players away, I wouldn't have expected SG1 officials to just let it happen in the same way.
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I do understand player reactions in these cases. To be clear I am saying I support it. VAR involvement only leads to overturning C&O errors. Players know this. Although not so much in this case but there are many 50-50s or even 80-20s that the ref can call either way and the original decision stands even with VAR. So the player know the referee's decision will not change either way and they after a decision that favours them.

In this specific case, knowing what was at stake, VVD was protesting the on filed decision because it would have given him a much better chance of staying on the field had it been yellow. Even though he knows his protest won't change a thing, he still couldn't help himself.
 
It's certainly been interesting to hear the different communication styles of the officials. I would say Taylor and Oliver, perhaps unsurprisingly, have especially stood out as being strong on-field communicators.
I think it's fair to point out the context that it is a very noisy stadium and Brooks clearly tells Van Djik that he will need to go straight away and warns him not to do anything stupid. Van Djik's conduct and the fact he has been charged by the FA suggests strong wording might well have been appropriate.
 
Kes said:
The trouble with trying to appear "calm" and unemotional is that it can come across as indifference or even self doubt from a player perspective which in turn invites more criticism and dissent in the moments that follow.
At least by acting in firm and authoritative manner you demonstrate that you're as physically and emotionally engaged in the match (to a point) as the players.
I'd imagine the Newcastle players were more than happy to see him act in this way. Just my own opinion though ...
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But this is exactly my point - he doesn't act in a "firm and authorative manner" at any point. He wanders round mostly ignoring VVD while the VAR check is going on, then shouts "Go" at him about 4 times once the check is complete.

There's nothing firm and authoritative about any of that. He would have been much better of shutting down the dissent rather than letting the player wind himself up and get even more frustrated at the lack of response. And we hear a couple of comments from him about what's going on in the process, but nothing trying to calm the player down, just shouting statements at him.

As we discussed in the actual match thread, he'd had a really difficult 25 minutes up until this point - had made quite a few mistakes and probably knew it. I'm prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume this is just how he communicates when stressed rather than when things are going well, but it's still fair to point it out as sub-optimal.
 
I hope JB reviews this, he was under pressure, but has to conduct himself in a much calmer manner regardless of provocation. To make best decisions, your frame of mind needs to be calm and collected, even more important during a VAR check as the dialogue needs to be calm, clear and concise.

I thought the football referee VAR conversations we heard were chaotic compared to the rugby TMO equivalent.
 
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