Referee push, yellow card

[Ciley Myrus]

Old chestnut. We keep going over that the "laws" in football are not the laws of the land
If you deem that push to be violent thats fine. I have used similar actions in seperating players and next time I do, I will be sure to dismiss myself
"We" also dont get to make up our own zero tolerances. The lotg are universal
There is nothing brutal about that push. Its a push. Not even a strong one.

 

[Big Cat]

I agree with every opinion above
It all depends on the game for me. A short clip doesn't portray what's gone on beforehand or the general vibe. At the very least, Memphis was seriously testing the ref's frame of mind

 

[cwyeary]

Here's a recent example from MLS where the player was sent off for making contact with the referee and suspended for three matches.

(First video on the page)
https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2018...pends-vancouvers-efrain-juarez-two-more-games

 

[jofusref]

I watched an England at Wembley game on TV on Sauchihall Street in a packed Sports Bar, Scotland were playing Germany away same day I think. England scored and Scotland conceded in about the same minute. I expected a riot but about half the pub jumped up supporting England. Suddenly from feeling like I was a lonely man in the Lions lair, I felt like I was with a band of English workmen brothers doing the same as me!!

thats what happens when you are in a pub with a load of rangers suporters.they sing the english anthem boo flower of scotland, a total embarrasment to the country, and i mean scotland, and red all day dont touch the referee, although he was standing to close to the player

 

[JH]

Here's a recent example from MLS where the player was sent off for making contact with the referee and suspended for three matches.

(First video on the page)
https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2018...pends-vancouvers-efrain-juarez-two-more-games

Similar to Buffon-Oliver

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

Pushing someone is, a push! Aggression at worst

Can of worms i guess

Uh huh.
So, physical aggression against a referee is not a red card.
This forum is getting madder by the day....

Which part of the laws?

You're kidding, right?

It's violent conduct. And there's precedent in the laws for considering small acts with little force violent conduct.

Can you guess what that is?

I agree with every opinion above
It all depends on the game for me. A short clip doesn't portray what's gone on beforehand or the general vibe. At the very least, Memphis was seriously testing the ref's frame of mind

Can't for the life of me figure out how 'what happened before' is relevant.

Here's a recent example from MLS where the player was sent off for making contact with the referee and suspended for three matches.

(First video on the page)
https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2018...pends-vancouvers-efrain-juarez-two-more-games

Good to see the appropriate action taken there. It's a shame a more consistent, universal approach isn't adopted. No other sport permits constant manhandling of their officials.

 

[deusex]

Anyone who is not red carding for this please throw your whistle and badge away.
On what f**king planet are you going to say a ref push is a YC??
Then the next guy who doesn't like a decision can push you,it's only a £10 fine after all.
F**k it let all 22 players push you. And we'll have no red cards.
Some of you are just playing devil's advocate on this forum and it's boring.
You YC for this and YOU are partly responsible when that same player punches a ref in the face the week after.
If you don't have the balls to RC here, go do something else on a Saturday...

 

[Ciley Myrus]

Anyone who is not red carding for this please throw your whistle and badge away.
On what f**king planet are you going to say a ref push is a YC??
Then the next guy who doesn't like a decision can push you,it's only a £10 fine after all.
F**k it let all 22 players push you. And we'll have no red cards.
Some of you are just playing devil's advocate on this forum and it's boring.
You YC for this and YOU are partly responsible when that same player punches a ref in the face the week after.
If you don't have the balls to RC here, go do something else on a Saturday...

My whistle will be used today and am not red carding for that
The referee in the clip is most likely officiating over the weekend too.
I do not class that minor act of aggression to be a threat to me, my safety or my match control.
If the same player punches me in the face next week, thats violent conduct and will be dealt with on its own merits.
Being a referee means at some point, we will be involved in confrontation, intimidation, taking all different shapes and forms. If your instant and only response is to fire up a red card and thats it dealt with, then I suggest you have too little tolerance to offiate or are lacking in basic managment skills or are too self important to be out there mixing with 22 plus different chatacters
Maybe its upbringing, maybe its the environment we are refereeing in but not in any day of the week can I class that push as violent conduct
Could I grow legs on my report on council park 19 in Sunday league, yes, I could write a report on that to the league which would make it sound like a horrifying encounter
Could i be that ref in that clip and have it played back to a room of delegates and claim to be the victim of an act of violence? I would not huminilate myself to do so.

 

[JamesL]

My whistle will be used today and am not red carding for that
The referee in the clip is most likely officiating over the weekend too.
I do not class that minor act of aggression to be a threat to me, my safety or my match control.
If the same player punches me in the face next week, thats violent conduct and will be dealt with on its own merits.
Being a referee means at some point, we will be involved in confrontation, intimidation, taking all different shapes and forms. If your instant and only response is to fire up a red card and thats it dealt with, then I suggest you have too little tolerance to offiate or are lacking in basic managment skills or are too self important to be out there mixing with 22 plus different chatacters
Maybe its upbringing, maybe its the environment we are refereeing in but not in any day of the week can I class that push as violent conduct
Could I grow legs on my report on council park 19 in Sunday league, yes, I could write a report on that to the league which would make it sound like a horrifying encounter
Could i be that ref in that clip and have it played back to a room of delegates and claim to be the victim of an act of violence? I would not huminilate myself to do so.

If we take the definition of violent conduct we can easy arrive at a red card. Violent conduct does not neccssarily have to be violent, per se.

Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or
brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball, or against a
team-mate, team official, match official, spectator or any other person,
regardless of whether contact is made.

You are not wrong in your opinion. After all, all decisions are taken by the match official within the framework of the laws and are in the opinion of the referee.

But those opting for a red card are not wrong eother Any force used on a match official can be deemed excessive. Similarly those going for yellow are also not wrong if in their opinion the force used was not excessive.

I suppose it all comes down to the referee.

For me its a red. Zero tolerance. Maybe I am pre programmed. Maybe at elite level I might think differently. I do struggle with the fact that player on player this is a fairly trifling offence, worthy of a caution at worst. But, out in grassroots this, for me, is an easy red card. Players dont have the same control at GR football and if players see you can be pushed around with little or no retribution then this opens the door for escalation and more serious offences to take place.

I'd be interested in the forums observers views... what the expectations would be at grassroots level??

 

[Ciley Myrus]

If we take the definition of violent conduct we can easy arrive at a red card. Violent conduct does not neccssarily have to be violent, per se.

Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or
brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball, or against a
team-mate, team official, match official, spectator or any other person,
regardless of whether contact is made.

You are not wrong in your opinion. After all, all decisions are taken by the match official within the framework of the laws and are in the opinion of the referee.

But those opting for a red card are not wrong eother Any force used on a match official can be deemed excessive. Similarly those going for yellow are also not wrong if in their opinion the force used was not excessive.

I suppose it all comes down to the referee.

For me its a red. Zero tolerance. Maybe I am pre programmed. Maybe at elite level I might think differently. I do struggle with the fact that player on player this is a fairly trifling offence, worthy of a caution at worst. But, out in grassroots this, for me, is an easy red card. Players dont have the same control at GR football and if players see you can be pushed around with little or no retribution then this opens the door for escalation and more serious offences to take place.

I'd be interested in the forums observers views... what the expectations would be at grassroots level??

You have prob made my point better than I did
Grass roots I am leaning more to red but based on the clip in question am yellow

 

[Sheffields Finest]

If we take the definition of violent conduct we can easy arrive at a red card. Violent conduct does not neccssarily have to be violent, per se.

Violent conduct is when a player uses or attempts to use excessive force or
brutality against an opponent when not challenging for the ball, or against a
team-mate, team official, match official, spectator or any other person,
regardless of whether contact is made.

You are not wrong in your opinion. After all, all decisions are taken by the match official within the framework of the laws and are in the opinion of the referee.

But those opting for a red card are not wrong eother Any force used on a match official can be deemed excessive. Similarly those going for yellow are also not wrong if in their opinion the force used was not excessive.

I suppose it all comes down to the referee.

For me its a red. Zero tolerance. Maybe I am pre programmed. Maybe at elite level I might think differently. I do struggle with the fact that player on player this is a fairly trifling offence, worthy of a caution at worst. But, out in grassroots this, for me, is an easy red card. Players dont have the same control at GR football and if players see you can be pushed around with little or no retribution then this opens the door for escalation and more serious offences to take place.

I'd be interested in the forums observers views... what the expectations would be at grassroots level??

James, stop talking sense, it’s not like you at all,

 

[Ciley Myrus]

Think it was 34 mins into the Reading Derby game last night, Derby player wa getting a talking to prior to the yellow card being prodoced and he gave the ref a slap onto the arm, half playful, but unexpected, it was more of a striking movement than the clip in question and more justified in a red card than the clip of the push, imo
If we are red carding for the push because we cant lay hands on the ref then this player would have to go too, and that would be an absurd decision,

 

[Ciley Myrus]

James, stop talking sense, it’s not like you at all,

You class that push as excessive force? I have seen old Granny Ramsbottom push her trolley round Asda with more vigour, and she had her arms amputated in 1988

 

[Sheffields Finest]

You class that push as excessive force? I have seen old Granny Ramsbottom push her trolley round Asda with more vigour, and she had her arms amputated in 1988

Referees need to be really tough these days, proper tough, not Janette Tough.....

 

[one]

I abandoned a game last season for the same sort of push. Allbeit it was done 3 times and by a team official who entered the field without permission. The abandonment was fully supported by my RA and the league. The league requires the game to be abandoned after any intentional contact with aggression to the referee. I believe the legal term for it is common assault.

 

[one]

There are many many players in my neck of the woods who would be more than happy to get a yellow if they knew they can do this to a ref and get a yellow only. They would take turn so no one gets sent off.

Edit: heck they are happy to be sent off if they knew they can do it twice

 

[Ref Axel]

Anyone who is not red carding for this please throw your whistle and badge away.
On what f**king planet are you going to say a ref push is a YC??
Then the next guy who doesn't like a decision can push you,it's only a £10 fine after all.
F**k it let all 22 players push you. And we'll have no red cards.
Some of you are just playing devil's advocate on this forum and it's boring.
You YC for this and YOU are partly responsible when that same player punches a ref in the face the week after.
If you don't have the balls to RC here, go do something else on a Saturday...

This post EXACTLY sums up why you're not a high level referee.

 

[santa sangria]

You're kidding, right?

It's violent conduct. And there's precedent in the laws for considering small acts with little force violent conduct.

Can you guess what that is?

As said, I would red.
But you still haven't quoted the part of the LotG that you are referring to.
I presume you are then talking about spitting, which is totally different.

Where in the LotG does it say that any "small act of physical aggression is a red card"?

 

[Big Cat]

Camping in Dorset. Local rag ran a story about a player who got a 12 week suspended sentence for pushing ref, demanding notebook and chasing ref into changing rooms. Player tries to kick ref's door in etc
There is a difference between player on player and player on ref, but i fancy the outcome might depend a lot on the referee's experience. I think the general vibe in the game would also influence my response, although i'd be leaning towards red at grass roots for the sort of contact discussed here. I'd favour a second yellow for AA rather than get the player in the sh1t

 

[BCMilan]

I think it's a question of whether it's Violent Conduct, or not. IMO, if a ref wants to jump into the middle of a confrontation they need to expect this type of thing. It looks like the player (who is already in an agitated state) eases the ref away from his personal space. A normal reaction I would say and a yellow for me, followed by a stiff warning.