A&H

Ref forgets coin in WSL, gets players to play rock paper scissors.

The Referee Store
Not my specialist subject but, is it, or should it be common place for this to be public news anyway?
Whose interests is it in to announce this to the world?
Am taking a guess it must be legal to do so, but if am reprimanded at work, my employers wont take to social media to announce my three week absence, and for why?
Or is it because this ref is not an actual employee?

Could have easy just said to the guy, we aint selecting you for the next three weeks, and the ref, if his colleagues ask, is simply unavail

Have we seen yet Martin Atkinsons "punishment" for failing to either see, or, see and fail to deal with the mandatory caution of Bamba?
 
bester said:
What punishment did Martin Atkinson’s team get for failing to apply law when Sol Bamba took his shirt off? They can’t all have not have seen it.
Damaged the reputation of the game far more than this did (not saying much!)
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Different scenarios. The Sol Bamba one was a referee missing something in a game, you can't give what you don't see. The rock, paper, scissors scenario is a referee actively doing something against LOTG, probably panicking as the game was televised and he was pushed for time.

I do agree that the punishment is extremely harsh though
 
RustyRef said:
Especially in the current climate where there are lots of complaints from the senior female game that they aren't treated the same way as the male game when it comes to refereeing,
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You're right, there are complaints. Which somewhat surprises me as my impression is that (generally speaking) Womens' matches are currently appointed higher levels of referees than Mens' matches attracting similar numbers of spectators. Can totally understand that there would be sensitivity about the topic however and this may well have played a part in feeling a need to make the sanction more public
 
WilliamD said:
It’s harsh and personally I would assume there are some politics involved here.

But...R/P/S?? Could you choose anything more obvious to point out you forgot your coin? I have seen referees grab a blade a grass before calling the captains in and having them pick a hand, I have seen a pencil toss to see who it points to etc...that all looks normal ish if people glance over...captains having a play at r/p/s is like our 4th or 5th best save option. At least a weeks suspension for that judgement ;)
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As AR, I once had a ref ask me "heads or tails" pre-match, and then write a "T" on the palm of his left hand when I answered tails. When he asked the captain for his choice, rather than tossing a coin, he simply opened his hand and said "I'm afraid it's tails". Very odd, but the captains went along with it with no complaints!
 
GraemeS said:
As AR, I once had a ref ask me "heads or tails" pre-match, and then write a "T" on the palm of his left hand when I answered tails. When he asked the captain for his choice, rather than tossing a coin, he simply opened his hand and said "I'm afraid it's tails". Very odd, but the captains went along with it with no complaints!
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I guess the penny didn't drop (pun intended) for the captain that the ref could have a "H" written on the palm of his right hand!
 
I haven't seen any footage, but I bet the players laughed it off. I bet they weren't outraged like the FA are for a referee making light of forgetting something.
 
Reminds me of time I royally messed up the coin toss, u18 national schools, a school local to me v a far northern school who had travelled
It was a day like today, horrible, windy, and, I messed up, tossed coin, away captain called, won the toss but for some reason I went into autopilot, gave away team the centre, home team chose ends, chose to switch, and, it all seemed so natural but the away captain knew, I just knew he knew I got it wrong but amazingly, he never said a word, I knew tbh I got it wrong but, I confess, I had in my head, ah, school game, nobody will notice...
This is true btw, 6-0 home team ht with them playing with wind, and sure as fate, conditions eased up as game went on, even at 6-0 the away team were the better team, game finished 6-5, to the home team and true enough, at end, I heard mumblings about the kick off etc....nothing more than mumblings tho, but, after match research discovered the away captain was actually the international school skipper..
I knew he knew I messed up and no, nobody knows how things would have went had the away team played with wind behind them when it was at its strongest, but, its a safe guess things would have been diff...
Am sure their 3 hour bus journey home would have been full of , erm, dubious things to say about the referee...😢
 
RustyRef said:
21 days is the standard referee suspension for failing to proficiently apply the laws of the game in England, especially at senior levels. You have to remember this was live on TV as well, so whilst relatively minor it could be argued to have damaged the reputation of refereeing. Especially in the current climate where there are lots of complaints from the senior female game that they aren't treated the same way as the male game when it comes to refereeing, have you ever seen rock, paper, scissors used in a men's televised game … ?!
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I do a lot of female football and whilst not arguing your post, there is a huge expectation difference in the womens game for injuries, soon as a female goes down, everybody, both teams, want the game stopped
They also have a habit of treating stoppages as time outs, and heading to the sidelines for coaching, whilst neither may be contray to the lotg, there is a slightly different mind set to the female game.

A stereotypical USA lawyer would have a field day representing this guy now and watching with interest for similar punishments to be given to other referees on tv who have a lotg misfortune, in the interests of fairness.
 
Russell Jones said:
You're right, there are complaints. Which somewhat surprises me as my impression is that (generally speaking) Womens' matches are currently appointed higher levels of referees than Mens' matches attracting similar numbers of spectators. Can totally understand that there would be sensitivity about the topic however and this may well have played a part in feeling a need to make the sanction more public
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I would not be surprised if the clubs complained. I did one recently, and the only gripe the manager had was the added time. His team had won 8-0 and he wsnt even complaining about the added time not being played..he complained that it sends the wrong message, that they were trying to give a good impression on womens game and its comparability to the mens game. His opinion was that only adding 1 minute gave the wrong impression for spectators etc. He agreed with the reasoning but he said ref should have put 3 on board and then played 1.

I can see his argument but I would have said just play the 3. Its okay at amateur level if a team is getting hammered as there is more to gain but in what is a proffessional gane, referees should apply proffessional standards
 
On reflection the referee needs a better lawyer....

"I did have my coin when I left the dressing room, however when it came to kick off I admit it was no longer on my person, with game being on tv and broadcaster telling me it was now kick off time, rather than return for my spare coin, look for my dropped coin, or indeed delay time approaching my AR, I on this rare occasion opted to take the action I did, to ensure the game kicked off on time, going forward, I will take extra steps to ensure the coin stays on my person"

sorted
 
Surely a harmless game of rock-paper-scissors is better for the game than delaying kick-off?
 
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JH said:
Surely a harmful game of rock-paper-scissors is better for the game than delaying kick-off?
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It is not an approved method of determining choice of end.

Lets take an alternative scenario...

Kicls from the penalty mark... aay you dont have a coin how are you going to select ends, given that the captains dont get a choice here.

(And there are no safety concerns to determine why kicks cant be taken from one end)

What you doing?
 
JamesL said:
It is not an approved method of determining choice of end.

Lets take an alternative scenario...

Kicls from the penalty mark... aay you dont have a coin how are you going to select ends, given that the captains dont get a choice here.

(And there are no safety concerns to determine why kicks cant be taken from one end)

What you doing?
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Hopefully realising at full time that i dont have a coin and, either, going to get it, (if that means I need the toilet so be it), asking AR or 4th for one (if appointed), failing all that, am asking a nice person on the sideline (I have dropped my coin during the last 120 mins of running about, any chance I can borrow one)
Any reasonable person will understand a coin which you did have on you can fall out at any time. Should it? No
Could it, yes
 
Ciley Myrus said:
Hopefully realising at full time that i dont have a coin and, either, going to get it, (if that means I need the toilet so be it), asking AR or 4th for one (if appointed), failing all that, am asking a nice person on the sideline (I have dropped my coin during the last 120 mins of running about, any chance I can borrow one)
Any reasonable person will understand a coin which you did have on you can fall out at any time. Should it? No
Could it, yes
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So can I determine from that Ciley you wouldnt opt for, say a game of rock paper scissors?? Which was my point :)
 
JamesL said:
So can I determine from that Ciley you wouldnt opt for, say a game of rock paper scissors?? Which was my point :)
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I can confirm I would not opt for that method, primarily as I dont know how to conduct such a ritual !!!

If I had no other choice in the whole planet then I would think I would opt for, whistle is in which hand tbh.
 
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