QAT:ECU Matchday 1 - Orsato (ITA)

[george.g]

although the ref does love his whistle - began to get on my nerves after a while.

Admittedly thought it was just stadium noise at one point... couldn't work out why he was blowing at one or two points, but I did have my attention diverted so maybe I missed a few things

 

[Max2]

Also couldn't help noticing he had a yellow whistle and what looked like a wedding ring on - I know at least one observer who would have had him on both of those !

And that observer can get knotted

 

[JamesL]

Some opening 20 minutes or so. Goal disallowed. Pen after shot taken and saved... Take note - universally accepted decision on what is a regular topic on here.

That's about all I managed to catch.

 

[JamesL]

Got to score with that header!

Thought he was offside from my view.

 

[RustyRef]

Some opening 20 minutes or so. Goal disallowed. Pen after shot taken and saved... Take note - universally accepted decision on what is a regular topic on here.

That's about all I managed to catch.

You didn't miss much, all that happened was in the first 20 minutes.

 

[RustyRef]

Competent officiating performance, although the ref does love his whistle - began to get on my nerves after a while.

Also couldn't help noticing he had a yellow whistle and what looked like a wedding ring on - I know at least one observer who would have had him on both of those !

I think it is a metal ring for the whistle as opposed to a wedding ring.

 

[cwyeary]

It was an unusual offside situation but once you see everything it's clear. Really poor from the production team to not give the viewers the clear evidence quicker.

 

[RefIADad]

Ors has a very original style of signaling, slow and deliberate, oftern facing ahead, and not back at the incident area - which you just cannot do in normal football.

The ARs flagging while moving drives me nuts - I know it’s normal in some countries but it looks rubbish and again - just don’t do it. Flag standing still.

Generally speaking, German and Italian ARs don't get too caught up in mechanics like other countries (UK and US in particular). I always see ARs pumping the flags while running, holding flags in the hand outside of the field, etc.

 

[Mr Dean]

It was an unusual offside situation but once you see everything it's clear. Really poor from the production team to not give the viewers the clear evidence quicker.

I'm struggling to think of a sport other than football where the referee can make a decision and the audience has no idea what happened. It would be so easy to show the reverse angle while the VAR is looking at it, and to broadcast the audio as well.

 

[one]

@santa sangria has it bang on.

Looked back at the replay on Iplayer. When the Ecuadorian attacker challenges the Qatari goalkeeper, the Qatari #16 becomes the last defender, and Qatari #1 becomes the second to last, putting the offside line on him.

At the point of this challenge, the Ecuadorian attacker, whose number I can't see, has his front foot offside. The ball then spills, with no other player touching it, until the Ecuadorian attacker comes back from his offside position and plays the ball.

I hope that makes sense...

I don't think this is accurate. At the time of the challenge the only player who could possibly be called offside later is well onside(see pic) That player becomes very momentarily offside later when the ball is in the air but no challenges or plays for the ball is made at that time. At the next phase of play when an attempt is made to play the ball, everyone is onside. It looks like a blunder by VAR and looking for something that wasn't there.

The freeze frame is at the drop zone of the fee kick. At the time of the free kick no one was offside.

 

[one]

Looks like an amazing VAR decision - but the commentators have no idea!

VAR is still a total shambles, the protocol is just dismal. But yes, it was offside. When the GK and attacker challenge, the other attacker's foot is off! Amazing!

Not sure what you mean by "goalkeeper and attacker challenge". If you mean challenge for the ball, that is not when you consider an offside position. If you mean challenged each other's for space, that is not when you consider offside position (for the other attacker) either. If you mean the attacker played/touched the ball (which is the right time of consideration) then the other attacker is well onside at that point in time. See my image in last post.

 

[Peter Grove]

I don't have easy access to a replay but I feel I need to understand this decision.

As I understand the scenario, the initial offside position comes when Estupinian challenged with the goalkeeper. They're saying that Estupinian got a touch on the ball, and at that point, Estrada was just marginally in an offside position.

I'm not clear on what happened next. I'd say it's pretty doubtful that Estrada was active in play at that point, but was it the case that he was the one who came back to play the ball and knock it across to Valencia to head home?

If not then as I say, I'm struggling to see the involvement in active play but if he subsequently played the ball with no intervening touch by anyone, then it would be clear that he committed an offside offence.

Can anyone confirm the actual sequence of events?

 

[Peter Grove]

OK, I think I've got it figured out now. I found a detailed description online, which if accurate, explains the decision fully. Estrada wasn't the one who crossed to ball to Valencia but he headed the ball back to Torres who did.

Since Estrada was in an offside position when Estupinian touched the ball as part of his challenge on the keeper, when Estrada subsequently headed the ball to Torres (with no intervening touch by anyone) he became actively involved in play and committed the offside offence of interfering with play by touching the ball.

The only remaining question, based on online discussions I've seen, was whether it was actually Estupinian who headed the ball, rather than the keeper punching it (as some are saying). However with all the different camera angles and slow motion replays they have available to them, I'm supposing they got that particular aspect of it correct.

 

[one]

OK, I think I've got it figured out now. I found a detailed description online, which if accurate, explains the decision fully. Estrada wasn't the one who crossed to ball to Valencia but he headed the ball back to Torres who did.

Since Estrada was in an offside position when Estupinian touched the ball as part of his challenge on the keeper, when Estrada subsequently headed the ball to Torres (with no intervening touch by anyone) he became actively involved in play and committed the offside offence of interfering with play by touching the ball.

The only remaining question, based on online discussions I've seen, was whether it was actually Estupinian who headed the ball, rather than the keeper punching it (as some are saying). However with all the different camera angles and slow motion replays they have available to them, I'm supposing they got that particular aspect of it correct.

I don't know the player names but have a freeze frame image of the moment of keeper punch and/or attacker header in above post. No one is even close to being in an offside position other than the player who played the ball. you can't be offside off your own pass

 

[santa sangria]

I don't know the player names but have a freeze frame image of the moment of keeper punch and/or attacker header in above post. No one is even close to being in an offside position other than the player who played the ball. you can't be offside off your own pass

I don’t know about your image. I think that is not the original header. Instead your image shows the follow up challenge by the piop . It was clear in the match footage. My broadcaster showed a convincing replay about 2 mins after the restart. Though it did take a long time for VAR to fire up the new animation. Would be easier for you if you watched it

 

[santa sangria]

OK, I think I've got it figured out now. I found a detailed description online, which if accurate, explains the decision fully. Estrada wasn't the one who crossed to ball to Valencia but he headed the ball back to Torres who did.

Since Estrada was in an offside position when Estupinian touched the ball as part of his challenge on the keeper, when Estrada subsequently headed the ball to Torres (with no intervening touch by anyone) he became actively involved in play and committed the offside offence of interfering with play by touching the ball.

The only remaining question, based on online discussions I've seen, was whether it was actually Estupinian who headed the ball, rather than the keeper punching it (as some are saying). However with all the different camera angles and slow motion replays they have available to them, I'm supposing they got that particular aspect of it correct.

Yes, exactly. And it was odd and unexpected because of the bounce before the player became active by challenging. It was an amazing decision. But looked “dodgy” as it was so unexpected.

Would be interesting to know if one of the officials spotted it or if it was the new semi auto system?

 

[JamesL]

I don't know the player names but have a freeze frame image of the moment of keeper punch and/or attacker header in above post. No one is even close to being in an offside position other than the player who played the ball. you can't be offside off your own pass

Will just leave this here..

 

[one]

View attachment 6151

Will just leave this here..

Where is the ball? In this image?

https://www.fifa.com/fifaplus/en/watch/4NT53rpdd9h4uFX2F3iQQT?cid=(p_go-box)(c_FIFAPlus)(sc_highlights)(ssc_)(da_)(co_)(cc_)&s_cid=(co_)(cc_)&c=(c_FIFAPlus)(sc_highlights)(ssc_)(cc_)&pid=(p_go-box)(ch_)(t_)

The highlight vid on FIFA website should be accessible to everyone. Freeze on 18 seconds .

I don’t know about your image. I think that is not the original header. Instead your image shows the follow up challenge by the piop . It was clear in the match footage. My broadcaster showed a convincing replay about 2 mins after the restart. Though it did take a long time for VAR to fire up the new animation. Would be easier for you if you watched it

No it the first the ball arrived from the free kick. See above video if you can access.

 

[JamesL]

Where is the ball? In this image?

https://www.fifa.com/fifaplus/en/watch/4NT53rpdd9h4uFX2F3iQQT?cid=(p_go-box)(c_FIFAPlus)(sc_highlights)(ssc_)(da_)(co_)(cc_)&s_cid=(co_)(cc_)&c=(c_FIFAPlus)(sc_highlights)(ssc_)(cc_)&pid=(p_go-box)(ch_)(t_)

The highlight vid on FIFA website should be accessible to everyone. Freeze on 18 seconds .

No it the first the ball arrived from the free kick. See above video if you can access.

On the end of the keepers gloves. I think the VAR or AVAR has determined there has been a touch by the Ecuador player challenging the goal keeper.

 

[one]

On the end of the keepers gloves.

All I can say is that images doesn't match what the video shows. Could just be optical illusion but in the video the player is well onside.