A&H

PSG vs Istanbul

Tweets from a Romanian journalist with the audio and translation.



Seems like the 4O was telling the referee which person to send off amongst all the coaching staff and subs wearing the same green jackets. But even if they are the only black person there it's probably best not to refer to their skin colour...

Apparently they were going to swap VAR with 4O and then put the 4O in the VAR truck with the AVAR, but Başakşehir wouldn't accept that.
Career ender for him then, but I think it should be made clear for him that this is not racism in order to protect his reputation (although that's not really important in the context of a refereeing forum.)
 
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From what I have heard I dont think there is any racist intent, however, completely unacceptable from the 4O.;
As I understand it the 4O has used skin colour as an adjective to identify the offender..
Demba Ba is absolutely right in what he says, and Stan Collymore (whom I don't always agree with) , everyone has name number, official role on the team sheet, there is zero need to use skin colour as the adjective. It's unlikely that had the offender been Caucasian he wouldn't have said the white guy.
I think this guys career has just gone up in smoke. There will be no coming back from this.
Everyone may have a name or official role but if they are all wearing the same unnumbered green jackets (apart from the manager) and you don't know their face then obviously you won't be able to identify them by their name or role.

If the offender in this technical area had been white then of course it would be pointless saying "the white guy" as the referee would then ask "which one?"

Best just to keep identifying features in your head rather than be spoken.
 
This is the world we live in. Aside from anything else, the culture of the game is such that once a Team Member has been dismissed, they will use anything against them to get the MO in trouble. Loose accusations of racism undermine genuine instances of the same thing
 
This is the world we live in. Aside from anything else, the culture of the game is such that once a Team Member has been dismissed, they will use anything against them to get the MO in trouble. Loose accusations of racism undermine genuine instances of the same thing
I think some people have been a bit quick to condemn him....but this is a step too far the other way. There are cameras and it was an empty stadium. Give it time for all the information come out and it will soon be obvious what happened.

Be cautions with condemnation, yes. Jump immediately to victim blaming...I'm not sure that's the correct approach.
 
This is the world we live in. Aside from anything else, the culture of the game is such that once a Team Member has been dismissed, they will use anything against them to get the MO in trouble. Loose accusations of racism undermine genuine instances of the same thing

100%. Skin colour is an identifying characteristic, I don’t see an issue in identifying someone as black/brown/white as it’s a factual description.

I’m not sure whether or not the issue is with misinterpretation of the officials use of the word ‘black’, being close to the offensive N word. If he’s said the word ‘black’ in his native tongue then he’s done nothing wrong IMO. It would’ve been more tactful to use a name if he knew it but he obviously didn’t.

If the coach has heard an N word in order to describe him then he’s potentially taken that as a ‘slang/offensive’ description for black.

Unfortunately we’ll all know where this goes for the official. Already guilty in the eyes of the uber-sensitive whether it’s a misunderstanding or not. Gary Linekar and co were lauding the player reactions without any consideration for the fact it may just be a misinterpretation/misunderstanding.
 
It's unlikely that had the offender been Caucasian he wouldn't have said the white guy.
If the offender had been the ONLY Caucasian team official in that technical area then I can well imagine that being the way he might have been identified. Likewise, if he was the only one with ginger hair, that could easily be used as a convenient short cut (despite the fact that in other circumstances, "Ginger" could be used as an offensive term). Are we saying that both of these choices would be equally unacceptable?

Personally, I feel that the biggest issue here is that the Romanian word used is almost indistinguishable from other English words that are way more 'loaded' in meaning
 
100%. Skin colour is an identifying characteristic, I don’t see an issue in identifying someone as black/brown/white as it’s a factual description.

I’m not sure whether or not the issue is with misinterpretation of the officials use of the word ‘black’, being close to the offensive N word. If he’s said the word ‘black’ in his native tongue then he’s done nothing wrong IMO. It would’ve been more tactful to use a name if he knew it but he obviously didn’t.

If the coach has heard an N word in order to describe him then he’s potentially taken that as a ‘slang/offensive’ description for black.

Unfortunately we’ll all know where this goes for the official. Already guilty in the eyes of the uber-sensitive whether it’s a misunderstanding or not. Gary Linekar and co were lauding the player reactions without any consideration for the fact it may just be a misinterpretation/misunderstanding.
I don't think you are too wide of the mark, it has been reported, and there is a video of Demba Ba suggesting the furore was around using skin colour as the descriptor. More specifically that he had previously referred to the psg assistant manager as 'the assistant' and then the coach, or himself, not sure, as this black guy.

 
The referee and the fourth official are both fluent in English. As are the team officials. This whole situation could have been avoided if the fourth official simply spoke to his colleague in English, which is the standard language in international football. Instead, the fourth official spoke in a little-known language which is easy to misinterpret.
 
The referee and the fourth official are both fluent in English. As are the team officials. This whole situation could have been avoided if the fourth official simply spoke to his colleague in English, which is the standard language in international football. Instead, the fourth official spoke in a little-known language which is easy to misinterpret.

But here's the issue - if I'm talking with my countryman, why wouldn't use my native language, particularly when we are in the stressful situation of officiating a high-level soccer match? I've officiated matches of teams where it's obvious the primary language on both teams isn't English. I do know enough words of Spanish and can understand a little of it where I can offer very basic words and phrases to communicate in Spanish. But I would obviously communicate with my crew mates in English.

I get that UEFA and FIFA want their officials to be conversant in English. But if two Romanians are speaking together, why wouldn't they communicate in their native language? Yes, the Romanian word for "black" does sound very much like the English racial slur for those of African descent, particularly if you don't clearly hear the word the first time. But that's the literal translation of the word "black" from English to Romanian.

This doesn't excuse the alleged action of Coltescu that he used skin color as the first identifying characteristic. If I'm a fourth, I'd rather walk with my referee to be in front of the person in question and say, "This person is who I recommend you send off". Whether Coltescu spoke to Hategan in Romanian, English, or jibberish, he shouldn't have (again, allegedly as I write this) used race as the identifying characteristic.

Perhaps that's one of the reasons (among many others, including the fact that Makkelie is on the very short list of best referees in Europe) UEFA has gone with a split crew of referees from Italy, the Netherlands, and Poland for today's completion of the match. The crew will have no choice but to communicate in English since that is almost certainly the one common language among the crew.
 
I don't think you are too wide of the mark, it has been reported, and there is a video of Demba Ba suggesting the furore was around using skin colour as the descriptor. More specifically that he had previously referred to the psg assistant manager as 'the assistant' and then the coach, or himself, not sure, as this black guy.

I’m sorry, but I don’t agree with Demba Ba here. Whilst I agree that somebody probably wouldn’t say ‘the white guy’, I don’t think it’s at all fair to call somebody racist based on what is an assumption. It doesn’t sit right with me
 
UEFA rescinded the red card to the assistant coach. Strange if the send off was before all of the controversial conduct.
 
I read that they had frozen it so that he could still be involved tonight, not rescinded it.
Eh? How does that work
They aren't replaying the game they are kicking off from where it all, erm, kicked off. So if a player had been dismissed he would be off.. Surely same applies??
 
Annoying watching all the ref hating ex-players calling for his head.
But when a fellow pro (Cavani) messes up "Oh it's just the langauge barrier" (And I'm a Utd fan)

Racist comments towards the officials have now been unearthed, I'm sure the player/coach who is revealed to have said them will be banned forlife too 🙄
 
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Eh? How does that work
They aren't replaying the game they are kicking off from where it all, erm, kicked off. So if a player had been dismissed he would be off.. Surely same applies??

From BBC ....

Uefa said Webo's red card has been "frozen" while the investigation continues, allowing him to take his place on the bench when the match resumes at 17:55 GMT on Wednesday.

Paris St-Germain v Istanbul Basaksehir: Uefa investigation after official accused of racism - BBC Sport
 
Much as i liked all the goals Demba Ba scored for the mags, if he's saying we can't describe a 'black man' as a 'black man', we have a pitiful future ahead of us. Maybe I've missed something.... which I'm prone to doing
 
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