A&H

PSG vs Istanbul

Degnann

As incompetent as the last ref
Level 4 Referee
Game abandoned in the first half. Seems to be the 4th official has been accused of racist language.
Paris Saint Germain – Istanbul Başakşehir
Referee: Ovidiu Hațegan (ROU)
Assistant Referee 1: Octavian Sovre (ROU)
Assistant Referee 2: Sebastian Gheorghe (ROU)
Fourth Official: Sebastian Coltescu (ROU)


Downright madness
 
The Referee Store
would anyone know if I’m correct in saying that a 4th officials communications is push to talk and not an open line so is possible that no other official heard it?
 
would anyone know if I’m correct in saying that a 4th officials communications is push to talk and not an open line so is possible that no other official heard it?

At that level, the 4O's communication will normally be push to talk. It's entirely possible no other official heard the comment, which is why I'm sure Hategan was having trouble trying to get everything sorted out. Kind of hard to deal with something when you have no direct knowledge of the situation.
 
Getting news scoops through Twitter isn't always the most prudent course of action, but it appears UEFA is trying to continue with the fourth official switching with the AVAR, with Başakşehir continuing to assert they won't play unless the official is completely removed from the crew.


I would imagine if this game continues, it will likely be with only the VAR in the video operating room (of course, with support staff) and the AVAR moving to the 4O role.
 
Game now abandoned, PSG awarded 3-0 result as the solution offered by UEFA was for the 4O to go to VAR van and that was refused by Istanbul so that’s that. I’m sure audio evidence will be found in due course, indefensible if found guilty but innocent til proven guilty.
 
BBC reporting game will continue so different reports from different outlets. We’ll soon see although not sure how they continue, another warm up & start from 15 mins or start from the start?
 
Game now abandoned, PSG awarded 3-0 result as the solution offered by UEFA was for the 4O to go to VAR van and that was refused by Istanbul so that’s that. I’m sure audio evidence will be found in due course, indefensible if found guilty but innocent til proven guilty.

If the match resumes, I would imagine it is treated the same way as you would restart following a lightning delay. Pick the game up from 15 minutes (or whenever Hategan issued the red card), give the teams time to warm up, and then start with the appropriate restart.

Many years ago, I was the center referee for a match that had to finish the next day because of weather issues. I was already working a game the next day, so a different referee had to finish the match. I made a full record of the score, cautions (only one in that game), and even who would throw the ball in and from what point on the touchline and gave all of this information to the school's activities director. That way, the new referee could restart with the exact amount of time on the scoreboard clock (it was a US high school match, which mandates official time is kept on the stadium clock if one is there - just don't ask . . .) and the throw-in from where it would have been taken had the game not been suspended.
 
Very difficult for all involved and not quite sure the football will be great, I had an incident which ended up in a 20 min delay and the after that everyone was so horrorstruck no good football was played and everyone just wanted to go home after that point. It’ll be close to midnight by the time they start, not sure on the logistics of that
 
More news reports I'm seeing from a different forum are saying that the match will resume tomorrow. I have to imagine this gives UEFA time to bring in a different crew for the match. Some ideas would include the Polish crew that was in Rennes tonight with Marciniak and Frankowski switching R and VAR positions, Oliver or Kavanagh from England (the only impact the game has is that PSG could be top of the group with a win - their place in the last 16 is completely secure, and Basaksehir cannot avoid finishing last in the group), or Makkelie's crew from the Netherlands. I'm thinking of crews that would be close enough to Paris to get them into town tomorrow and work around quarantine rules.

Honestly, the idea with the Polish crew seems to make the most sense if the ARs are OK unless they were already in the air back to Poland tonight.
 
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This was posted before full confirmation into what was said, but there’s videos of the assistant manager saying ‘why did you say ....’ followed by the N word. Somebody in the BT studio confirmed that that particular word in Romania is used to describe black people.

Very difficult situation really for all involved as obviously that word shouldn’t be used, but it goes to show the clear lack of awareness and training provided by UEFA or whoever to help with these language barriers. A recent incident with Cavani using a similar word highlights the same problem.
 
Don't they have AVAR?
If so, the VAR goes middle, the AVAR goes on one line and the 4th official goes on other.
One of the AR goes 4th and the other 2 go into VAR.

That would mean the 4th official would be acting as assistant referee for the first time in many years.

UEFA have fixed it by mixing up a Dutch team with a Polish team that were already in France ...

Referee: Danny Makkelie (NED)
Assistant Referee 1: Mario Diks (NED)
Assistant Referee 2: Marcin Boniek (POL)
Fourth Official: Bartosz Frankowski (POL)
Video Assistant Referee: Marco Di Bello (ITA)
Assistant Video Assistant Referee: Maurizio Mariani (ITA)
 
I think it is going to be interesting to hear more details, though the "real" story may never be completely clear. From what I've heard, it sounds like the Romanian word is not itself an offense term, but sounds a lot like a word that is offensive in other languages. To me it sounds like a combination of a poor choice by the 4O coupled with crossed language/cultural sensitivity issues.

But it sounds like a heat of the moment faux pas, not a racist comment. The 4O has called the R over to toss an assistant coach--we all know that is a challenging moment. The R comes over to ask which coach. In a perfect world, the answer would be the name of the coach. Or it would be helpful to be able to say "the one in the red hat"--but coaches in those games tend to be dressed exactly the same. So it sounds like 4O was trying to do nothing more than communicate to the R which coach was supposed to be shown the red card. In some ways that is no more than saying "the tall one"--a way to identify which of the assistant coaches. But (understandably in a world and a game that has had very ugly race issues) the comment became supercharged. Because of that supercharged reality, no matter how neutrally we intend it, referees should not use race as a tool that way as it always has the potential to be explosive.
 
Tweets from a Romanian journalist with the audio and translation.



Seems like the 4O was telling the referee which person to send off amongst all the coaching staff and subs wearing the same green jackets. But even if they are the only black person there it's probably best not to refer to their skin colour...
Don't they have AVAR?
If so, the VAR goes middle, the AVAR goes on one line and the 4th official goes on other.
One of the AR goes 4th and the other 2 go into VAR.
Apparently they were going to swap VAR with 4O and then put the 4O in the VAR truck with the AVAR, but Başakşehir wouldn't accept that.
 
I think it is going to be interesting to hear more details, though the "real" story may never be completely clear. From what I've heard, it sounds like the Romanian word is not itself an offense term, but sounds a lot like a word that is offensive in other languages. To me it sounds like a combination of a poor choice by the 4O coupled with crossed language/cultural sensitivity issues.

But it sounds like a heat of the moment faux pas, not a racist comment. The 4O has called the R over to toss an assistant coach--we all know that is a challenging moment. The R comes over to ask which coach. In a perfect world, the answer would be the name of the coach. Or it would be helpful to be able to say "the one in the red hat"--but coaches in those games tend to be dressed exactly the same. So it sounds like 4O was trying to do nothing more than communicate to the R which coach was supposed to be shown the red card. In some ways that is no more than saying "the tall one"--a way to identify which of the assistant coaches. But (understandably in a world and a game that has had very ugly race issues) the comment became supercharged. Because of that supercharged reality, no matter how neutrally we intend it, referees should not use race as a tool that way as it always has the potential to be explosive.

That really doesn't matter. You can't identify someone by their race, skin colour, sexuality, etc, and these days are never going to get away with that. I do accept it is made worse by the Romanian phrase for black person, but he should never have used that phrase in the first place to identify the offender.
 
That really doesn't matter. You can't identify someone by their race, skin colour, sexuality, etc, and these days are never going to get away with that. I do accept it is made worse by the Romanian phrase for black person, but he should never have used that phrase in the first place to identify the offender.
Uh, that's pretty much what I said. It was a mistake, and a big one in the heat of an emotional moment. But being a mistake and being racist are different.
 
From what I have heard I dont think there is any racist intent, however, completely unacceptable from the 4O.;
As I understand it the 4O has used skin colour as an adjective to identify the offender..
Demba Ba is absolutely right in what he says, and Stan Collymore (whom I don't always agree with) , everyone has name number, official role on the team sheet, there is zero need to use skin colour as the adjective. It's unlikely that had the offender been Caucasian he wouldn't have said the white guy.
I think this guys career has just gone up in smoke. There will be no coming back from this.
 
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