RefSix

Positioning at Corner

#1
Hi All,

Hoping for some advice.

The guidance I have been given for positioning at corner kicks is: Goal line at 6yd area at back post.

I understand the idea - without ARs it is easier for offside calls and some offences although when two players challenge for the ball - especially when it's directly on the 6 yard line I struggle to see who the ball last came off of and forever having 'discussions' with players and coaches over GK/corner. Is there a better way to watch for who played the ball last?
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#2
Can't be offside from a CK
Seldom offside from a short corner. Main thing I find is to experiment with different positions and don't be static, perhaps unless you're behind the goal line. WRT the latter, make sure the engine is revving cos you might be doing wheel spins to keep up with any breakaway
 
#3
Without ARs intersection of goal line and goal area is a great place to be before the corner, as you can easily see holding, GK pushes, handbags etc.... but... big but coming... I think it’s a bad place to be once the ball is in play. You can’t see the near post and you have a lot of ground to make up if the ball is cleared.

It’s a compromise whatever you do.

Without ARs the first few corners I start there at the intersection of goal line and goal area, and while the ball is in the air, I move back to the basic penalty area/D intersection.

I learnt this on these boards;) You are moving, it keeps the players guessing, and you are better placed for what happens next.
 

spuddy1878

RefChat Addict
#5
I stand corner taker side with no assistants.

Obviously have to look at corner taker and make sure you're not blocking a potential short corner but for me you see more of whats going on.
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#6
Drop zone, clear view of
And always on move.
Assuming we are talking the traditional punt into the box.

Priority number one, ball in out play. (A rare decision), which surprisingly lone referees overlook......
 

RobOda

RefChat Addict
#7
I understand the idea - without ARs it is easier for offside calls and some offences although when two players challenge for the ball
Actually... I believe it is best for ball in/out including goal or no goal decisions. At the near post as suggested by @spuddy1878 , you can't judge in/out for obvious reasons without messing up your view of the drop zone, and you will get picked up on it if you're up for assessment.

Keep on your toes and be prepared to move side-to-side, don't be static. If they play short, move forward. You can go sideways and step off the pitch if you need to look at an angle, the only difficulty with this positioning are near-post corners imo.
 

QuaverRef

I used to be indecisive but now i'm not so sure
#8
Starting position on the edge of the 18 for me (with AR’s that is) varying every time so players don’t ‘learn’. When the ball is played in, keep moving towards the drop zone.

I tried the goal line technique but quickly found a flaw when the corner was played short, I was then stuck opposite side of the goal with a load of players in the way. Tried it at the front post, ball went straight over everyone’s head to the back and I got stuck in the same situation.

For me, 18 yard gives you the perfect range of movement for all scenarios
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#9
This starting on the 18 looking in was the Millwall v Brighton ref position at every corner yesterday. He missed a clear pk because of it. And 2 mins later, he invented a foul to the defenders, as a means to sorting out the squabbling, sadly, there was no foul....
you simply are too far away make huge calls if you are out there, and looking through too many bodies in a crowded six yard box.
So easy to miss handballs from the first header too, but, I do understand it appears England coach their referees to start on the 18 looking in.
your also too far from the goal line to accurately take care of task number 1....ball in and out of play...... at least from say 12 yards the call is more credible.
How can you tell from the 18 if the corner goes out of play? You cant. Impossible. A guess.
 

QuaverRef

I used to be indecisive but now i'm not so sure
#10
This starting on the 18 looking in was the Millwall v Brighton ref position at every corner yesterday. He missed a clear pk because of it. And 2 mins later, he invented a foul to the defenders, as a means to sorting out the squabbling, sadly, there was no foul....
you simply are too far away make huge calls if you are out there, and looking through too many bodies in a crowded six yard box.
So easy to miss handballs from the first header too, but, I do understand it appears England coach their referees to start on the 18 looking in.
your also too far from the goal line to accurately take care of task number 1....ball in and out of play...... at least from say 12 yards the call is more credible.
How can you tell from the 18 if the corner goes out of play? You cant. Impossible. A guess.
Assuming that was aimed at my post above, I did in my first sentence say with AR’s so task number 1 is covered.

And yes, the English are advised to stand on the 18 but again, if I see the ball is going to the six yard, I’ll jog inwards. I’m at the opinion that the range of movement and space is better from the 18 as if stood on the goal line, you’re stuck at either the front post or back post, the movement is limited.

If I’m honest, I don’t think there’s a correct answer as you can never truly predict where that ball is going to drop before it’s taken.
 

Ben448844

RefChat Addict
#11
This starting on the 18 looking in was the Millwall v Brighton ref position at every corner yesterday. He missed a clear pk because of it. And 2 mins later, he invented a foul to the defenders, as a means to sorting out the squabbling, sadly, there was no foul....
you simply are too far away make huge calls if you are out there, and looking through too many bodies in a crowded six yard box.
So easy to miss handballs from the first header too, but, I do understand it appears England coach their referees to start on the 18 looking in.
your also too far from the goal line to accurately take care of task number 1....ball in and out of play...... at least from say 12 yards the call is more credible.
How can you tell from the 18 if the corner goes out of play? You cant. Impossible. A guess.
Same with offside calls from long balls when you're on your own or ball in or out of play as the lines haven't been done for a while. You can't be 100% I think 18 yard box (varying sides) covers all bases in terms of giving a wide view and being in position for a breakaway, whilst also giving u a chance to see ball out of play to a certain extent.
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#12
Same with offside calls from long balls when you're on your own or ball in or out of play as the lines haven't been done for a while. You can't be 100% I think 18 yard box (varying sides) covers all bases in terms of giving a wide view and being in position for a breakaway, whilst also giving u a chance to see ball out of play to a certain extent.
Ball in and out of play though should be the priority, as if the balls out, whatever happens next pushy pulls wise, is irrelevant, plus, its also a factual call...
Thought process should be def seeing ball out of play or not, then the rest of the calls, to a certain extent.
If the balls out, all bets are off.
 

one

RefChat Addict
#13
* long post alert *

There are a number of things you have as part of priorities. I order some here :
  1. Goal / no Goal
  2. Pen / no pen (seeing fouls, holding, shirt pulls)
  3. Ball in out from the kick
  4. Keeping up with play for counters
(Offside - maybe not given its a CK)

Its quite common to be given advice to position for highest priority (with consideration if you have AR). What's missing from that is not taking into account the chances of you having to make decision on that priority.

Let's take 1 and 4 which have conflicting positioning (goal line for 1 and say 25 yards out for 4). The chances of having to make close ball in and out of goal decision for a corner kick is very rare. Once in a few seasons. It happens more often in general play but still rare. The chance of having to keep up with play for a counter is probably half the time for a decent quality game. Do you want to jeopardise having to make a critical decision at the other end from a poor position, say 40 yards away, almost half the time, because you want to be in a better position to make call that rarely ever happens (all be it a very important one)?

Positioning is a balancing act of taking many things into consideration and is different in every game/CK. You need to consider the level of the game and their tactics. It also depends where all the players are standing. For example if a team takes short corner kicks every time it makes sense to be on the near side.

Having said that as a rule of thumb, my position in most cases is somewhere inside an imaginary 8 yard radius circle. The centre of the circle is where the D touches the 18 yard line on the far side to the AR (far side to corer kick if I don't have AR). Move towards the ball as it's being kicked and move sideways or towards drop zone to get a better view (side on/unblocked) as it comes in.
 
Last edited:
#14
I concur. And disagree with the right honorable member for Cilage.

At grassroots, no ARs, ball in/out is not top priority. Match control and things like penalty appeals, blatant holding, handbags, off the ball stuff... and big offside calls in open play... all way more important than ball in-out IMHO.

But it’s the art of compromise.

I’ll eat some of my hat Friday night when I have a lone league match for the first time in ages with a team of many refs vs a team of many expats. ;)
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#15
Ball in and out of play is factual and all bets are off if the ball goes out. Take the chain of events logically, the kick, then, the in/out play, and then whatever happens next.
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
#16
Ball in and out of play is absolute priority.

I observed someone at 5-4 many years ago and due to the ground was stood close to the corner flags for a lot of it. He missed two ball over line decisions from corners because he was stood outside of the penalty area. When we had the debrief and I asked him about it he said "I'm not interested in the goal line as nothing happens there". So you can imagine my response, "it happened twice in this game" ..!
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#17
Ball in and out of play is absolute priority.

I observed someone at 5-4 many years ago and due to the ground was stood close to the corner flags for a lot of it. He missed two ball over line decisions from corners because he was stood outside of the penalty area. When we had the debrief and I asked him about it he said "I'm not interested in the goal line as nothing happens there". So you can imagine my response, "it happened twice in this game" ..!


Yip, far too lax to say, its never going to happen. It does. And when it does, your not going to come out of it too well at all.
Ball in and out of play is number 1, well, joint 1 with kicker taking double touch,unless you include that in your ball in out play criteria, I have seen folk stand near post with back to kicker (without NARS) at a corner, total nonsense.
All very well seeing push or being ready for the next phase of play but if the ball goes out, that's that.
 

GraemeS

RefChat Addict
#18
* long post alert *

There are a number of things you have as part of priorities. I order some here :
  1. Goal / no Goal
  2. Pen / no pen (seeing fouls, holding, shirt pulls)
  3. Ball in out from the kick
  4. Keeping up with play for counters
(Offside - maybe not given its a CK)

Its quite common to be given advice to position for highest priority (with consideration if you have AR). What's missing from that is not taking into account the chances of you having to make decision on that priority.

Let's take 1 and 4 which have conflicting positioning (goal line for 1 and say 25 yards out for 4). The chances of having to make close ball in and out of goal decision for a corner kick is very rare. Once in a few seasons. It happens more often in general play but still rare. The chance of having to keep up with play for a counter is probably half the time for a decent quality game. Do you want to jeopardise having to make a critical decision at the other end from a poor position, say 40 yards away, almost half the time, because you want to be in a better position to make call that rarely ever happens (all be it a very important one)?

Positioning is a balancing act of taking many things into consideration and is different in every game/CK. You need to consider the level of the game and their tactics. It also depends where all the players are standing. For example if a team takes short corner kicks every time it makes sense to be on the near side.

Having said that as a rule of thumb, my position in most cases is somewhere inside an imaginary 8 yard radius circle. The centre of the circle is where the D touches the 18 yard line on the far side to the AR (far side to corer kick if I don't have AR). Move towards the ball as it's being kicked and move sideways or towards drop zone to get a better view (side on/unblocked) as it comes in.
Agree with you completely. I would almost go further than you and say that being on the line for "1" is a pretty awful position for a lot of "2" calls as well as the obvious disadvantage for "4".

While you might need to be on the line to make a 100% confident decision, you can do a 95% as good a job from a wide position around the same distance out as the penalty spot, and be way better prepared for the much likelier possibility of a foul decision and/or a quick break. Seems like a no-brainer to me.
 
#19
Positioning is a numbers game. You want to think about where play is going and where to get the best view of it - but it's also about what's significant.
The most significant thing that can happen at a corner is a goal. A ball at goal in-out scenario is reasonably unlikely, but not entirely rare - but you can only see it from one position: in line. Similarly, the ball curving out then back in is quite likely - and again, you can only see it from one position. I'd argue that's also a very significant event, as anything that happens after depends on getting this one right.

What else? A foul of some sort. So, edge of PA or behind goal line....they just give you different views. Behind goal line, gives you a closer view, especially if it's a goalmouth scramble. Which, again, is reasonably likely.

BUT - you're looking in from the front and you miss the wide view, so you might miss the shirt pull or holding at the back - but in my experience, the number of times this happens to the extent that I've missed it from this position is extremely rare. Because you're looking back at the players - so your view of these isn't as good, but you can see.

One downside is having to look down the line for ball in/out if it travels down the line, meaning players are behind you. Not ideal, but very rare for something to happen in that timeframe.
The worst case scenario here is if play falls to the far side - then you find yourself quite unsighted. That's about the worst case scenario for me. Whether play stays there or moves further out, it's tricky because to run out you basically need to run out to the edge of the PA then across - you don't want to run across goals (although once I ran behind the goals....unusual, but worked for that time).

What else is quite likely? Play breaking up the field. Sure, you're behind play by a long way. But what happens? Almost always, play is either intercepted by the defence or held up at midfield, so you can catch up. Sure, there MIGHT be a foul - but usually in this case it's so obvious you can see it from 3 fields away. So while you're in a poorer position, you're not unsighted - the number of times I've felt that I missed something on the break in this scenario is very, very low. The worst is if it goes all the way to goal on a sprint and there's a potential challenge near the other PA - because you could be 50 yards behind here. Again, very unlikely and you still have some visibility - as opposed to ball in/out where on the edge of the PA you can't see it at all.

So considering all that, without a NAR I'll stand on the edge of the GA/off the GL , kicker side every single time (being careful not to run across if the corner is being quickly taken). It's just the best option for me - and I always recommend people do the same.

IMO don't stand on the non-kicker side -you're staring at player's backs and can't see a thing. Also have the goal blocking your view of the kick. I've tried it, just felt the view was var inferior. I'll take near post every time. It does mean I have a challenge of trying to look in 2 directions at once for a few moments, but that's very rarely a problem. The angle of view there is just far, far superior.

Standing off the GL does mean you're static - but again, that's not a problem. Why move for the sake of moving if you already have the best view? When I'm standing on the field edge of the PA (with NAR) I'm not going to start dancing around once the ball comes in just for the sake of it. Though, you probably should if you have an assessor, it's the sort of useless thing assessors seem to love :)

Absolutely, move if the ball/player movement puts the best view somewhere else - but often movement won't be overly necessary.

Personally, about the only time I won't stand off the GL at a CK with no NAR is when the team is so bad that their corners are getting intercepted every single time - or if it's going to the far side of the goal. But bear in mind - even if players are preparing at the far side of the goal, they're going to run forwards.


Without ARs intersection of goal line and goal area is a great place to be before the corner, as you can easily see holding, GK pushes, handbags etc.... but... big but coming... I think it’s a bad place to be once the ball is in play. You can’t see the near post and you have a lot of ground to make up if the ball is cleared.

It’s a compromise whatever you do.

Without ARs the first few corners I start there at the intersection of goal line and goal area, and while the ball is in the air, I move back to the basic penalty area/D intersection.

I learnt this on these boards;) You are moving, it keeps the players guessing, and you are better placed for what happens next.
Why do you move?

Personally, I think the priority here of ball in/out very heavily outweighs the incredibly unlikely chance that a player is deciding where/how to foul somebody based on where I'm standing. With a NAR, absolutely, move around (though I honestly think we overstate this issue)
 
#20
I deffo disagree with the right honorable member for @CapnBloodbeard west on this one. And we are talking about games with no ARs here. Apologies long post:

Why move? If you stay static, feet planted, you miss things and everything is harder and slower to do.

Stay on the goal line? For me definitely not. You can’t see pushes or holding. And you are inviting the goalkeeper to aggressively push their nearest opponent (which, of the many, is probably the most common problem I face in non-AR games).

Report from my game on Friday as promised - billed as a friendly off season league it was anything but. This game needed a full 3 but I was alone. Full force throughout, lots of ”ambitious” sliding, some good play in the middle, 2 off the ball kick-each-others (one attempted, one landed), one red, five yellows.

Corners- Every corner had 8 players+ at the near post in the goal area plus another 2-4 in the goal area by the GK. Both teams kept trying inswingers into crowded goal areas (probably a good tactic as the GKs were the weak link).

The only way to police the corners was from side on. From the goal line I would not have been able to see many of the players, let alone what they were up to. Before the corners I often started behind them close to the goal line. When the corner was taken I typically went to the side of the penalty spot at the near post ( because the players were in the goal area, in some cases mostly on the goal line!) And then I moved back and to the side as the ball landed (my diagonal) or to the D (if corner from the right). The one I remember most ended with the ball on the floor in a crazy melee on the edge of the goal area, I stepped back while it was happening, I had to watch feet, saw no offence, but once the ball was cleared one defender had a sore head - so I missed something as 10+ players crowded the ball! Very difficult.


Bonus - I’m always interested to read the ”you’re not gonna put that through” stories as it never happens here... until now. Of course, it’s an English guy. Lovely guy, third time I’ve given him a RC. After the game: ” I only kicked out at him (off the ball to get me second yellow) because of ”tragic story about relative”” and then ”we got two red cards last week and the ref didn’t put them through, so you won’t process mine?”

LOL Turns out it is officially a friendly and cards don’t count. I have of course pointed out the bleedin obvious to my FA that there might, just might, be a link between a team picking up red cards like confetti and them not leading to suspensions. Oh and the ex-pats were outplayed but beat the refs 2-1 (only one ref showed though).
 
Top