Open Age Poor decision and how to improve

[Gabriel]

Bit of context I’ve realised I forgot to add as well: after the game, the player who committed the foul said to the referee “how on earth have you let me off with that one”. I do have sympathy for the ref because he just made a decision in the heat of the moment, but as others have said this is where comms and buzzers come in handy.

 

[TheFoodieReferee]

I had this exact thing yesterday, I was in the middle, I had a semi decent angle, it looked like the keeper has nicked the ball during him sliding out for it and it’s went for a corner. I’ve indicated for a corner, thankfully, I was massively bailed out by my lino who had clearly seen that keeper has indeed missed the ball and wiped the striker out. He’s buzzing me like mad so I knew I’d missed something, went across, had a quiet word, penalty given. Queue the usual moaners from the defensive team but they soon accepted it when I said we work as a team and we all work together to get the correct decision.

After the game, the defending team manager said it was good to see a referee who worked with his assistants and had the balls to change a big decision.

 

[Gabriel]

Sounds like a good process to reach the right decision @TheFoodieReferee

 

[Big Cat]

I think we are hamstring by not being allowed Comms.
I reckon if we were allowed almost every level 3 referee would go out and buy a set tomorrow. For these very reasons.
Ultimately the referee leads the team.
An example where Comms are great, as a non active AR I, thought I,.had a great view of a foul. Comms to ref, foul if you want it. The 4000+ supporters agreed with me.
Ref declined my advice. And video showed he was right to. Now, if I start waving that luminous thing attached to my hand, takeaway fact that as the non active AR no way in neck would I, we are stuck with a wrong decision or a broken team.
So it's an example of why giving too much rope to an AR can be fatal for the overall match experience and where Comms can enhance the decisions making process, allowing info to be given discreetly.

Yes, I did indicate the relationship is a very difficult aspect of refereeing. There's a balance to achieve optimal team work. I guess I'm indicating the balance is not right at this point in time based on what has evolved to become the 'accepted expectation'

I appreciate that it's vitally important the Assistant never simply re-referees any subjective decision and only assists when they are better placed to do so or when something quite unusual occurs

 

[Runner Ref]

A big part of this also comes down to who you have running the line for you. If you have someone you know and trust, you may give them some extra leeway. But this is with the caveat that it needs to be the same for both AR’s. I had plenty of times as a L4 (especially L4!) in which I was hesitant to just give them a flag, never mind responbilities. Of course everyone is there to do their best, but the skill level on my pool at least was rather inconsistent…..shall we say.

 

[Big Cat]

I had this exact thing yesterday, I was in the middle, I had a semi decent angle, it looked like the keeper has nicked the ball during him sliding out for it and it’s went for a corner. I’ve indicated for a corner, thankfully, I was massively bailed out by my lino who had clearly seen that keeper has indeed missed the ball and wiped the striker out. He’s buzzing me like mad so I knew I’d missed something, went across, had a quiet word, penalty given. Queue the usual moaners from the defensive team but they soon accepted it when I said we work as a team and we all work together to get the correct decision.

After the game, the defending team manager said it was good to see a referee who worked with his assistants and had the balls to change a big decision.

When a Referee reverses a wrong decision based on advice from an Assistant, in my experience, the respect lost for the initial decision is more than restored. Both the Referee and the AR end up with a net gain. I think that the rules of engagement are too restrict and negate the opportunity to achieve this outcome all too often

 

[Big Cat]

A big part of this also comes down to who you have running the line for you. If you have someone you know and trust, you may have them such extra leeway. But this is with the caveat that it needs to be the same for both AR’s. I had plenty of times as a L4 (especially L4!) in which I was hesitant to just give them a flag, never mind responbilities. Of course everyone is there to do their best, but the skill level on my pool at least was rather inconsistent…..shall we say.

Absolutely. However, on those occasions when I get competent AR's, I'm inclined to relax the concept of seniority
In other settings, excessive seniority in team work is a very bad thing. It has frequently been the primary cause of aviation disasters for example
I know that analogy is a bit off-piste and we're not flying a plane, but I think it's still reasonable to consider

 

[OldNavyRef]

Problem is we've all had that assistant who is running the game from AR. I have had relentless feedback from ARs at half time about what they would have done and on 3 separate occasions I've been given advice on a decision that once I got home, turned out they were incorrect in law.

ARs that smash the buzzer every two seconds and ARs that flag after you've cut the grass on a inconsequential midfield tug or pull.

But to flip it. I've had amazing ARs. That know what they are doing and then some.

A gamble. That a referee needs to control and I fully understand 4s and 3s scared to trust their ARs especially when an observation might be on the cards.

 

[santa sangria]

To a point I agree that being able to have comms at L3 would be nice, but I also think it would be a hindrance as well. Comms, much like lining, is a skill in its own right. And something I don’t think it’s taught as much as it should be.

I remember getting on National League line and using comms for only 3rd or 4th time in my life and I didn’t really know what I was doing. There were some people who would give you a running commentary and others who gave dead silence.

In regards to the OP, not too many people are going to forgive an AR getting involved when the referee has waved it away. The term who benefit probably will, but everyone else, referee included, won’t.

Where I am we have a lot of freedom to use comms. It works incredibly with colleagues that have been through our ref academy training - including those without much experience. And it can also be useful when you’ve got a much more experienced ref with beginner ARs. Problem comes with older dogs not able to do new tricks.

I’ve only come across a couple of colleagues that talked too much. With less experienced ARs just getting them into the habit of calling colours and ball in and out) is great with comms. My view is that comms help beginner ARs think logically - waiting, waiting, offside etc.

In the OP, I think you just have to accept your ref has taken responsibility. You had different opinions. You did the right thing - “don’t break the team.” When you ref next time you will know to look to your AR for help first - and then cut the grass

 

[RustyRef]

I think we are hamstring by not being allowed Comms.
I reckon if we were allowed almost every level 3 referee would go out and buy a set tomorrow. For these very reasons.
Ultimately the referee leads the team.
An example where Comms are great, as a non active AR I, thought I,.had a great view of a foul. Comms to ref, foul if you want it. The 4000+ supporters agreed with me.
Ref declined my advice. And video showed he was right to. Now, if I start waving that luminous thing attached to my hand, takeaway fact that as the non active AR no way in neck would I, we are stuck with a wrong decision or a broken team.
So it's an example of why giving too much rope to an AR can be fatal for the overall match experience and where Comms can enhance the decisions making process, allowing info to be given discreetly.

Think this comes down to the argument about the integrity of the competition. Just as people argue that if VAR is used it must be used in all games in that competition, comms kits must follow the same argument. Having comms available fundamentally changes how a game can be refereed, so a team could get totally unlucky that they had 6 games where referees couldn't correct their mistakes as there were no comms. Whereas a different team had 6 games where comms were used and ARs corrected refereeing errors.

I do think they are massively beneficial, but can't see a scenario where it comes down to whether the referee wants to pay for them or not.

 

[RustyRef]

A big part of this also comes down to who you have running the line for you. If you have someone you know and trust, you may give them some extra leeway. But this is with the caveat that it needs to be the same for both AR’s. I had plenty of times as a L4 (especially L4!) in which I was hesitant to just give them a flag, never mind responbilities. Of course everyone is there to do their best, but the skill level on my pool at least was rather inconsistent…..shall we say.

That's a fair point, and my comment about letting ARs come in if I was the only idiot inside the stadium that thought I'd got the decision wrong only came into play once I got L3. At that level you have at least some confidence that your assistants have gone through at least some promotion criteria that involves holding a flag. Whereas as an L4 referee your assistants will be a totally unknown quantity, I'd have to be extremely confident in them to give them that instruction.

 

[Martiju]

Happens all the time mate.

When you aren't the referee in the middle you are at mercy to their refereeing style.

I have been teamed up several times with a referee that doesn't really want input from his NARs and that's just that.

If the referee cuts the grass on a KMD immediately. You can't come in. Otherwise all hell will break loose sadly.

You're there to assist not insist. But I would happily tell the benches and players that.

"Lads, nothing I can do, refs made that decision"

A line like that will require some explaining. But I would happily back that up.

I'm AR more often than I middle these days. My standard to add to your line is that '(s)he's got a different angle than us', particularly when I'm bench-side. It's neither positively affirming that you disagree with the referee or actively agreeing with them when that's not credible - just factual. It's also a good signifier that there's no more discussion to be had.

 

[Archer]

He’s made the poor decision, not you Gabz.

Park it, move on, smash it next week