A&H

Playful High-Jinx or Malicious Intent?

Silhouette

Silhouette

Target of Abuse
Level 7 Referee
Morning All,

Had a random one in my game the other day.

A player has been running his mouth (to me and the players) all game and is already on a yellow for decent.

He’s argued everything, he’s in a TERRIBLE mood and is really being a thorn in everyones side.

As a referee, I do do a lot of running backwards – but my awareness is usually really good (and I tend to cheat and use shadows)

But as I was running back ready for a goal kick – at the very last moment, I turned around and found this nuisance player bent over on his knees (not innocently tying his boots or anything) but ready in a true ‘playground’ style attempt to trip me over.

Now, I could probably have seen the funny side of it – if it had been a high spirits game – or similar.

But because I'm 97% sure he was doing it maliciously… I felt otherwise.

He got up after I caught him out and he laughed amongst his team and gave me a nice dirty look with it…

But would you have done anything in this instance.

If id actually gone over him – I *could* have seriously hurt myself.

But I dare say – this might have been the random’est thing I've ever asked – and id be surprised if anyone has had this.

Although, I do remember reading someone missed an Ambulance driving onto the pitch once… So I think anything can happen really.

How should I have handled it? I kind of bravely laughed it off – and made sure it looked like I'm not going to be phased by high jinx and that I'm here to do a job – not be the object of their amusement.
 
The Referee Store
Red card mate. You do not touch the referee. His intent was to make you look like an idiot, make you fall and it is potentially dangerous. You wouldn't have laughed if you had gone over and landed on your neck or back and injured yourself. It's a technical assault and as well as the red card report, you follow whatever pathways are in place to report a (technical) assault on a referee. Local to me it is a phone call to the Cfa secretary on the evening of the match.

Also, the amount of verbals you sound like you have taken during the game leads me to believe you probably should have given him a second caution quite a lot before the attempted trip? Benefit of hindsight eh? It's easy to ref over a forum, perhaps not so clear cut whilst on the pitch and events are unfolding.

Funnily enough this kind of player idiocy/high jinx is covered in the last referees world podcast.
 
SM said:
Red card mate. You do not touch the referee.
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Just to reiterate, he didnt make any contact - I turned around and noticed him sniggering away before I went over him.

In honesty, like I said, I played it off like "Nice one geezer", but if I had chosen to Red Card him - what would be the reason (as I dare say there would have been massive call for the 'reasoning' to be announced)

I would also feel a bit silly putting a misconduct report in for this... as like I said, no contact was made - just intent (which I appreciate in certain situations *is* enough).

I dont think I know who my CFA Secretary is - but are they supposed to be available for support/post match discussions if I do have any burning topics?
 
Yellow card dissent by action.
I think VC is a tough sell as he is stationary. He is trying to make you look stupid, not cause physical harm.
2nd YC and noone could argue
 
deusex said:
Yellow card dissent by action
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Hmmm... I really question (even now, let alone "in the heat of the moment") if I could sell him bending over to trip me as "Dissent".

I wish there was a section about 'intent'.

I had the same argument with a friend about headbutts/punches. He asked "Did they have to connect" - because if someone goes to punch someone and they dodge it - is it a red card. My answer --- yes.

But if they go for a punch and pull it instead (i.e. dont follow through, but do it to make the player flinch) is that a red card. My answer --- yes.

Because its "Violent Conduct".

But yes, he could have really hurt me - especially if i was going back at speed - and the ground was tough and I wouldnt have been able to put my hands out to stop myself... So it *was* (???) violent conduct?

Reminds me in my match two weeks ago, goal was scored, as I was coming back to the centre circle the ball hit me really hard in the back. Now, I have no evidence about whether they have smashed at me on purpouse, but I didnt even wince - just cracked on.
 
Off topic, but going back to your original post, I was the ref that missed an ambulance being half way on the pitch!
 
A. Technical Assault (where there is no element of contact between the offender and match official)

A Technical Assault will occur where a match official is intimidated and/or threatened with violence and/or is in fear of violence, whether or not there is an intention to carry through the threat. This category will also include careless actions, which will include, but is not limited to, the throwing or kicking of objects or substances or spitting towards a match official but where no contact is made with the said official.

It's not dissent. He is not protesting a decision. It makes no difference that there is no contact - that was due to you seeing him at the last second. You being tripped would just make it an assault. He has intending to trip you. It is not acceptable behaviour on a football pitch on any way shape or form. If found guilty by cfa he would be looking down the business end of up to a 6 month ban.

You may want to laugh this off or down play it. You wouldn't have posted it here if you really thought it was nothing.

And as for providing reasoning, that incident happens and you produce a card. Before anyone asks why And what for I am getting the captain in and telling him "that behaviour is unacceptable on a football pitch. It's a red card and it will be reported to county as a technical assault.

That Incident happens and I trip over a player? Red card and Match going to be abandoned.

Tip - when a goal is scored, do not turn your back on the ball - wait until it is kicked passed you back to the centre circle before recording the goal.
 
Sorry folks brain fart
Of course it's not dissent. Please swap for USB.
I certainly wouldn't be laughing this off from the OP description.
But I also don't think this clown deserves a 3 month ban.
I would also argue that if you are producing a red for this you would have to abandon. If you consider an act of VC has taken place toward you the match should be abandoned. (But I really don't think this incident falls into that category)
 
Yellow card for USB. Bringing game into disrepute. I would struggle to go with assault of any kind as he was stationary and did not put you in fear if violence. How could someone bent down on the ground put you in immediate fear if violence? Had you gone over him, different matter.
 
My first thought was USB. Depending on the mood and temperature of the game could you argue for abusive/offensive language/gestures??
 
SM said:
Why would it be a different matter? :)
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Up until you go over him, you cannot presume to know his intent. A player crouched over on a pitch cannot put you in fear of violence. However, if you go over him the assault (battery) is made out as he has caused you to suffer unlawful force (I.e. your contact with the ground).
 
It has already been established he has no reason to be there on that position otherwise.

He is intending to trip you. to make you look like an idiot. An unfortunate side effect could be injury to the ref. He is intending to make contact with a referee. Trips or attempts to trip? Strikes or intends to strike? The Laws have the words built in.

It was the referee turning and seeing what was about to happen which at the last second averted the referee going over him, as the player has intended.

I ask again, why is it different?
 
SM said:
A. Technical Assault (where there is no element of contact between the offender and match official)

A Technical Assault will occur where a match official is intimidated and/or threatened with violence and/or is in fear of violence, whether or not there is an intention to carry through the threat. This category will also include careless actions, which will include, but is not limited to, the throwing or kicking of objects or substances or spitting towards a match official but where no contact is made with the said official.

It's not dissent. He is not protesting a decision. It makes no difference that there is no contact - that was due to you seeing him at the last second. You being tripped would just make it an assault. He has intending to trip you. It is not acceptable behaviour on a football pitch on any way shape or form. If found guilty by cfa he would be looking down the business end of up to a 6 month ban.

You may want to laugh this off or down play it. You wouldn't have posted it here if you really thought it was nothing.

And as for providing reasoning, that incident happens and you produce a card. Before anyone asks why And what for I am getting the captain in and telling him "that behaviour is unacceptable on a football pitch. It's a red card and it will be reported to county as a technical assault.

That Incident happens and I trip over a player? Red card and Match going to be abandoned.

Tip - when a goal is scored, do not turn your back on the ball - wait until it is kicked passed you back to the centre circle before recording the goal.
Click to expand...

Monkey, can I just ask where you got that quote from? Never seen or heard it before, and found it quite interesting.

If I were in that situation I think knowing he was on a caution I would've shown him a second yellow and sent him off. I certainly wouldn't be laughing it off. Bell piece.

His stand up (or in this case kneel down) comedy act clearly means more to him than playing football, I think I'd be doing him a favour, and I'm sure most of the other players would be grateful.
 
Explain why though? Why do the player a favour?

Next weeks ref (or the week after that if he gets a Game ban) will not appreciate your behaviour if he gets the same treatment.
 
It wouldn't be about doing him a favour, it would be for two reasons really - the main one was I'd never heard about the technical assault bit you quoted before (where was that from by the way?), but also bearing in mind I didn't know about that, I'd find it difficult to sell a red if there was no contact.

No place on any pitch for a pleb like that.

Obviously now you've educated me I'd have no problems with a red.
 
It's from county fa rules. I would be interested to see if it appears in your county rules.

I don't think it is an difficult one to sell - DOGSO can be tricky at times. The kick or punch nobody sees. The push in the penalty area that you see that nobody else does. They are difficult to sell. Everybody knows what is coming here if a player does this.
 
Interesting one for me this.

I respect the people who are seeing this as a straight red: as written this totally sounds like a chap I want off my pitch.

I'm not comfortable with a straight red for "attempted assault". I understand where people are coming from, and totally get the thought process, but I can't imagine myself justifying that without feeling like I'm making it up as a I go along. It's a sneaky act, it's a disrespectful act, but it's not a violent act - it's slapstick comedy, albeit at my expense. I'm almost struggling to even see the 2nd YC - it feels like it could easily come across as everyone else seeing this as a joke and a bit of fun, but I'm the grinch who sends him off because the joke's at my expense (that could well be my neuroses though, this is a real YHTBT).

Nevertheless, as written, I might not feel comfortable with a RC or even a 2nd YC, but I still want this chap off the pitch so I'm going to invite him into a conversation with me and give him every opportunity to earn a 2nd YC that no-one can argue with, and I might even provoke him into it a little bit. Go on pal, give me that opportunity to do you for dissent, please!

Just an opinion - there's more than one way to skin a cat.
 
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Technical Assault is a strong phrase for this sort of behaviour. I wouldn't want him on the pitch but technical assault is something different which I was, unfortunately, a victim to after my game yesterday by a player I dismissed. I'd probably give a second yellow and when the inevitable 'whats that for ref?' comes, USB is the answer.
 
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