Penalty retakes

[Keith Brown]

Hi there,

Was at a game at the weekend, where we won a penalty. The taker took the pen, and missed. The ref ordered a retake due to encroachment by both teams. The same taker, confidence already low, took the retake, and missed again.

Could our taker have handed the ball to someone else for the retake?

Or does the original taker have to take the retake too?

I've looked at law 14, but it doesn't seem to say anything beyond the taker making himself known to the referee, and doesn't allow or preclude the taker on the retake changing.

Cheers,

Keith.

 

[Will Triffitt]

I'd expect the taker to take it again but it wouldn't bother me if someone else took it as long as I knew who.

 

[AlexF]

The same person does not need to retake the kick.

Any eligible player can take that kick if it needs retaken. Heck, if you had to retake it again, a third player could step up. (Same applies to Kicks from the Mark.)

 

[DanCohen17]

The same person does not need to retake the kick.

Any eligible player can take that kick if it needs retaken. Heck, if you had to retake it again, a third player could step up. (Same applies to Kicks from the Mark.)

Yes and no.

Within the 90 (or 120) minutes, any player can take the penalty. If it's retaken, the kicker can change.

In a shootout, teams are required to 'nominate' their 5 takers beforehand. IIRC, it is not in LOTG but is in some competition rules that those 5 must be nominated in order, therefore meaning until sudden death, you couldn't change taker.

 

[AlexF]

In a shootout, teams are required to 'nominate' their 5 takers beforehand. IIRC, it is not in LOTG but is in some competition rules that those 5 must be nominated in order, therefore meaning until sudden death, you couldn't change taker.

That hasn't been the case in the Laws for a number of years now. In fact, you don't even need to nominate your 5 players anymore. Just send 'em up one at a time out of the eligible pool of players. That's what AR2 and the 4th Official are controlling (when you have a 4th!)

There was a case in the last Euro (I think?) where Portugal was in kicks from the mark and the guy who had originally been chosen to go third decided he didn't want to (Portugal had missed their first or first two kicks), and another eligible player went up instead.

Rules of Competition should NEVER dictate that the five need to be nominated in order. They should simply refer to the Laws noting that the kicks will be done as per the LotG.

 

[PinnerPaul]

That hasn't been the case in the Laws for a number of years now. In fact, you don't even need to nominate your 5 players anymore. Just send 'em up one at a time out of the eligible pool of players. That's what AR2 and the 4th Official are controlling (when you have a 4th!)

There was a case in the last Euro (I think?) where Portugal was in kicks from the mark and the guy who had originally been chosen to go third decided he didn't want to (Portugal had missed their first or first two kicks), and another eligible player went up instead.

Rules of Competition should NEVER dictate that the five need to be nominated in order. They should simply refer to the Laws noting that the kicks will be done as per the LotG.

Spot on! Another myth that majority seem to think is true, simply because its repeated so often

 

[Martiju]

Thanks for this - I've learned something new today! At my last cup game I was responsible for getting the numbers of the kickers and ensuring they went up in order. I assumed, as did the L4 ref, that this was required as I've always done it this way too. Wonder if the players would get concerned if I said it wasn't necessary...?!

 

[PinnerPaul]

Thanks for this - I've learned something new today! At my last cup game I was responsible for getting the numbers of the kickers and ensuring they went up in order. I assumed, as did the L4 ref, that this was required as I've always done it this way too. Wonder if the players would get concerned if I said it wasn't necessary...?!

I'm sure they wouldn't. If you're on your own, just make sure you make a note of shirt numbers as they come up to take the penalty -it really IS that simple!

 

[Russell Jones]

If you're on your own, just make sure you make a note of shirt numbers as they come up to take the penalty -it really IS that simple!

Unless they change shirts when you're not looking ... sneaky these players

 

[Charlie Jones]

for Mr @Russell Jones sake, take name and shirt numbers

to be honest, I to have learnt stuff here today lol

thanks all! (@AlexF)

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

Thanks for this - I've learned something new today! At my last cup game I was responsible for getting the numbers of the kickers and ensuring they went up in order. I assumed, as did the L4 ref, that this was required as I've always done it this way too. Wonder if the players would get concerned if I said it wasn't necessary...?!

It's convention, so go ahead and do it - don't follow convention and people will probably think you don't know what you're doing. Also, it can help keep things running. Players are asking who's next, you read out the next number - saves an argument between players and captain/coach each kick.
You just have to remain aware that if they decide to change the order, you let them. That's all.

 

[AlexF]

Of course, once you get to start applying the new Laws, there's an explicit bit in there about this now on pg 73 (by the numbering at the bottom of the page):

Each team is responsible for selecting from the eligible players the order in which they will take the kicks. The referee is not informed of the order.

 

[PinnerPaul]

Exactly Alex.

Capn - and if one team wants to give you the order and one team doesn't - what then?

Allow one team to do it and not the other, then you REALLY do look like you don't know what you're doing.

Trying to stay within the bounds of forum rules, but I really can't believe you have written "follow convention" - we've discussed on here numerous "conventions" players and some referees! believe to be correct but are not - surely as Alex says you stick to LOTG on this and other "myths" players,coaches etc believe.

Before a penalty shoot out once I had a request from one team to change GK with an outfield player - perfectly legal of course, other team objected because it wasn't usual or "convention" - should I have refused permission - no of course not.

 

[Charlie Jones]

I personally go with the attitude of, if I know I'm correct in law then do it ...

those coaches and players will possibly go home, look it up, and then realise I was right ... then a few things occur:

1. I have in some way taught players/managers/spectators a law of the game, and not just a convention of it.
2. Next time a referee follows my lead, they won't receive half the disgruntled attitude as I would received the first time round (heck the team in the 'know' may even lean over to the other team and inform them too!)
3. Next time I'm appointed to their fixture they may think to themselves 'oh good, this guy actually knows what he's doing!'

kapowwww!!!

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

Exactly Alex.

Capn - and if one team wants to give you the order and one team doesn't - what then?

Allow one team to do it and not the other, then you REALLY do look like you don't know what you're doing.

Trying to stay within the bounds of forum rules, but I really can't believe you have written "follow convention" - we've discussed on here numerous "conventions" players and some referees! believe to be correct but are not - surely as Alex says you stick to LOTG on this and other "myths" players,coaches etc believe.

Before a penalty shoot out once I had a request from one team to change GK with an outfield player - perfectly legal of course, other team objected because it wasn't usual or "convention" - should I have refused permission - no of course not.

If one team wants to do it and the other doesn't then that's fine. No problem.
As for 'convention' - convention matters a lot, and we all follow it a low. But we need to differentiate between ones that are harmful or wrong, ones that are harmless, and ones that are even an important part of the game. IFAB consider convention so important that they allow it to replace a number of important parts of the law.

Taking names before the KFTM- it's not required by law but it doesn't cause any harm to people's perceptions of laws, and in many cases it probably facilitates a smoother process. Many managers would probably find it pretty bizarre if I refused to take the names!! Sure, they may find it bizarre if they provide the name and notice I don't have it from the other one, but the net impact isn't likely to be worse though it's far, far less likely to happen. It's just part of facilitating the game.

 

[McTavish]

Taking names before the kickoff - it's not required by law but it doesn't cause any harm to people's perceptions of laws, and in many cases it probably facilitates a smoother process. Many managers would probably find it pretty bizarre if I refused to take the names!! Sure, they may find it bizarre if they provide the name and notice I don't have it from the other one, but the net impact isn't likely to be worse though it's far, far less likely to happen. It's just part of facilitating the game.

Not really the same thing. Providing names (apart of course from Subs names where there is a requirement in law to provide them) is usually part of the competition rules rather than being a convention - at least it is the the UK.

I referee a league that doesn't require teamsheets and therefore I am never given the full teams before kickoff but if I referee the exact same teams in a County Cup match then they will both provide me with teamsheets as that is the competition rule.

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

I actually meant to say before KFTM, sorry

 

[xPositor]

I personally go with the attitude of, if I know I'm correct in law then do it ...

those coaches and players will possibly go home, look it up, and then realise I was right ... then a few things occur:

1. I have in some way taught players/managers/spectators a law of the game, and not just a convention of it.
2. Next time a referee follows my lead, they won't receive half the disgruntled attitude as I would received the first time round (heck the team in the 'know' may even lean over to the other team and inform them too!)
3. Next time I'm appointed to their fixture they may think to themselves 'oh good, this guy actually knows what he's doing!'

kapowwww!!!

Charlie - I agree with what you say, except [just for you?] point 3?

kaboosh!!!!

 

[Peter Grove]

It's convention, so go ahead and do it - don't follow convention and people will probably think you don't know what you're doing. Also, it can help keep things running. Players are asking who's next, you read out the next number - saves an argument between players and captain/coach each kick.
You just have to remain aware that if they decide to change the order, you let them. That's all.

As far as I'm aware this was neither required nor a convention - it was just an unnecessary practice followed by some referees. Luckily it has been clarified in the new laws, which also make it clear in the " Details of all Law changes" section that this was never correct practice:

Each team is responsible for selecting from the eligible players the order in which they will take the kicks. The referee is not informed of the order.

Explanation
Clarifies that the names and/or the order of the kickers do not have to be given to the referee (some incorrectly ask for the names and stop the order being changed).

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

If most teams/players/referees are doing it then, by definition, that's convention.
It was just 'done' in my old area. Though for all I know it could have been required under the competition rules, I don't remember. It wasn't 'correct' or 'incorrect' practice. It wasn't required - but that alone isn't a reason against it either. It was just something that tended to occur.

All moot moving forwards.