The Ref Stop

penalty retake / manager send off

K

Kent Ref

RefChat Addict
I awarded black / white team a penalty. I shout "don't go in the area until the ball is kicked."

Before the player hits the ball the black / white team mate was 3 yards in the area. Penalty is scored.

I blow whistle and say it's a retake.

At this point reds manager starts screaming it's a free-kick to us. I go across to speak to him and i then gets the F's and C's so he's sent off and needs persuading to leave the vicinity. There's two other coaches bar him.. He also indicated it was never a penalty. Luckily his club assistant said (after the game) it was definitely a pen and the manager is often "like that".

The penalty is re-taken and scored.

Would anybody have done anything differently?
 
The Ref Stop
Kent Ref said:
Would anybody have done anything differently?
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Going to throw this out there.. Did anyone appeal for encroachment? Are you sure he was the only player encroaching? Did you pull a rabbit from the hat? Did you need to call the encroachment?

Absolutely correct in law so as far as the book is concerned, no change, but I find largely, penalty encroachment is fairly trivial, especially when a goal is scored.

I know you shouted before the kick was taken, what I tend to do, is starting from the opposite side of the penalty arc is walk along that area almost showing each player where the areas are they can't encroach to whilst telling them.
 
If it was credible to retake, beyond credible, then ok, really needs to be so obvious it be an affront not to give it

having given it though, and correctly going for the retake, am more inclined show zero tolerance for managers who do not understand the laws
 
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JamesL said:
I know you shouted before the kick was taken, what I tend to do, is starting from the opposite side of the penalty arc is walk along that area almost showing each player where the areas are they can't encroach to whilst telling them.
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What's the point of this if it sounds like you aren't going to punish encroachment? If you're doing it as a deterrent it's easy to do the same verbally. This is the type of thing that will get the shout of "it's not all about you ref"

I know it's come straight from the FA core tick box observer approach of managing a penalty but does it actually add anything positive?
 
bester said:
What's the point of this if it sounds like you aren't going to punish encroachment? If you're doing it as a deterrent it's easy to do the same verbally. This is the type of thing that will get the shout of "it's not all about you ref"

I know it's come straight from the FA core tick box observer approach of managing a penalty but does it actually add anything positive?
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It must do as I don't have encroachment in my games 😏
 
bester said:
What's the point of this if it sounds like you aren't going to punish encroachment? If you're doing it as a deterrent it's easy to do the same verbally. This is the type of thing that will get the shout of "it's not all about you ref"

I know it's come straight from the FA core tick box observer approach of managing a penalty but does it actually add anything positive?
Click to expand...

its same as shouting, hands off, pre a corner, then letting WWF unfold in front of you and just play on.

if my game has players who are not aware they cannot come into the pen area until the balls been kicked then either they, or I, is at the wrong sport

" guys, not till its kicked", if needed.
 
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JamesL said:
It must do as I don't have encroachment in my games 😏
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But in all seriousness its a good starter check that no one is starting from within 10 yards, also pushing people back off the line and getting close to warn the att/def pushing/vying for space.
 
Yeah decision to award the foul appears incorrect, but if you do give the foul, encroachment is the correct call
 
If the referee hadn't given a foul and the goal was scored would the VAR be able to ignore / allow an advantage from the encroachment

Also what's the point of the referee being in a terrible position if he's just going to ignore the player who he's just seen encroach and had a clear impact.
 
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JamesL said:
I know you shouted before the kick was taken, what I tend to do, is starting from the opposite side of the penalty arc is walk along that area almost showing each player where the areas are they can't encroach to whilst telling them.
Click to expand...
Many players have their front foot on the line. I shout "not on the line, behind the line". While it may sound pedantic, it shows them how serious I am about encroachment. Something that works for me quite well.
 
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one said:
Many players have their front foot on the line. I shout "not on the line, behind the line". While it may sound pedantic, it shows them how serious I am about encroachment. Something that works for me quite well.
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Exactly. And by walking along the perimeter it allows you to tell them directly, not just shout vaguely in direction hoping they listen. Especially if you are going to call it.
 
Brave call at grass roots level with no qualified ARs.

I have to say, rightly or wrongly, it's always difficult for a ref to watch both sets of players and the GK for penalty encroachment which is why, unless it's blatantly obvious (ie the GK saves and one of the encroaching attackers thumps the rebound into the net) I'll just save myself the hassle and allow the goal to stand. ;)
 
No one said that, and I'm going to keep quoting myself every time you make the same incorrect assertion
GraemeS said:
VAR is generally considered to be good in the CL, Europa and international competitions - where the very best referees and VAR are the ones using it, also coincidentally under better UEFA/FIFA guidelines that are tinkered with less.

You're absolutely right to say it still has a lot of the same problems when used in domestic leagues in other countries.
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Back to the penalty scenario.

I know i am correct in law BUT:

Why doesn't FIFA / LOTG allow the goal to be "chalked off" and no retake for an attacker committing the only offence at a PK?

Too strict to do this in reality?
 
Kent Ref said:
Back to the penalty scenario.

I know i am correct in law BUT:

Why doesn't FIFA / LOTG allow the goal to be "chalked off" and no retake for an attacker committing the only offence at a PK?

Too strict to do this in reality?
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You have to look at this as a whole. Yes an attacker commited a minor offence at a PK which in your case didn't even impact the PK. But why did you award the PK in the first place? Let's say it was due to a attacker being through on goal and fouled by the "last man" attempting to play the ball in an almost certain goal scoring opportunity. You don't allow the retake after the PK and the team with the clearly bigger offence is the winner here.

The law was written in a way to be fair on both sides and rebalancing of the situation by looking at the bigger picture.
 
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