A&H

Penalty Kick

p4yno

Well-Known Member
Level 5 Referee
Had an 'incident' on Saturday. I believed I was correct in law on how I handled it. What are your thoughts...?

Attacker, runs into the box, skips past the tiring Defender. Defender then trips attacker deliberately and makes contact. I am 5 metres away, but hold off blowing whistle for a second or so as the attacker although stumbling has a chance to knock it past the keeper, he doesn’t, goalkeeper saves it. I blow up. PENALTY KICK. It was a clear foul, not even debatable. Caution.

I didn’t play advantage in the sense of screaming ADVANTAGE, just held off blowing the whistle just to see what happened. Now cue a couple of defending players, including the goalkeeper who pulled off a good save saying I played the advantage, why am I giving them a penalty. I simply said, he was fouled swiftly followed by GO AWAY NOW!

Now, I know that you are never going to get a good enough advantage other than a penalty kick unless you are putting it into an open net and if attacker is wiped out on floor with no chance of doing anything then I would blow up straight away, however I delayed slightly as the attacker had some BUT very little composure to get a shot away. I’d rather award goal and give some words of advice to defender to behave himself.

I remember Phil Dowd applied the above at Anfield possibly last season or season before by memory. In law I believe I was correct, in terms of managing the game, maybe it was easier to blow up straight away?

Ironically, the same player in the second half wiped out the same attacker whilst he was clean through in the area so he was sent off for DOGSO and another penalty was awarded.

Thoughts?
 
The Referee Store
What sort of time scale in the first incident?

My thinking is; Just because the attacker is honest enough to stay on his feet and can still get an off balance shot away (if he was off balance that is), does that negate a possible DOGSO by the defender?
 
Just imagine if you'd blown your whistle for the penalty just as the attacker buried the ball in the back of the net

your decision sounds pretty good to me although i'd really love to see Monkey sending the guy off, too

choices, choices :)
 
Sounds like DOGSO in the first incident, never mind the 2nd!

Can i ask why you didn't see it as DOGSO?
 
You see a lot of top level officials seeing how play develops and think you made the right choice. You don't need to be screaming advantage the second of the trip as what had happened if the attacker had totally fluffed it missed the ball completely and it had trickled out of play. In an ideal world he'd have slotted it home and then everyone is happy. Well happy ish as teams conceding always moan. I bet if the attacker had scored one of the dope defenders would say you should have blown for a penalty! ;)

I'm assuming this all happened in the space of a few seconds.
 
Sounds like DOGSO in the first incident, never mind the 2nd!

Can i ask why you didn't see it as DOGSO?

I also get that impression but I guess you have to see it.

I think as the player was in a good enough position for you to allow him to shoot to see if he scores it sounds like a dogso to me.
 
Sounds like DOGSO in the first incident, never mind the 2nd!

Can i ask why you didn't see it as DOGSO?

With regards to DOGSO when I was training our teacher said at typical Sunday league pub level you should rarely be giving red cards for dogso as even if the striker had an empty goal from five yards the 9/10 would miss. I don't totally agree with this but do see the point being made that the laws need to be enforced differently at gras roots than premier league level.
 
This was on Saturday at District level, but I would class a Sunday league level in terms of standard.

I made the decision that a caution was sufficent for the deliberate trip, not a sending off for DOGSO as a shot was taken and well saved. I weighed it up in the heat of the moment, that it wasnt DOGSO. It wasn't a game that needed any cautions or sendings off, it was played in a good spirit in very warm weather.

The later sending off of the same player, I had no choice and he had to go.

In respect of the foul to when the shot was taken, no more than a couple of seconds. As @DaveMac said, ideally I wanted him to score the goal as everyone is happy and I wanted to give him the chance to do it. He didnt. I wanted to see what developed @haywain like you said, IF he bangs in the top corner after the whistle in blow or as being blown bit unfair on the attacker.
 
I think it sounds a great piece of refereeing to be honest. At the top level I'm a great fan of seeing this sort of thing happen.
 
With regards to DOGSO when I was training our teacher said at typical Sunday league pub level you should rarely be giving red cards for dogso as even if the striker had an empty goal from five yards the 9/10 would miss. I don't totally agree with this but do see the point being made that the laws need to be enforced differently at gras roots than premier league level.

Have you put that into practice on a Sunday morning?

Attacker one on one with keeper, gets wiped out and you don't give DOGSO..........how are you going to sell that to the attacking team? "Sorry, but he probably would've missed anyway"? When you do it, please report back here how it affected your match control?

Laws need to be enforced correctly throughout all levels of football........the laws don't differentiate between the Premier league and a sunday morning league......it is our primary function to facilitate a game of football in line with the LOTG.....

That is the problem with the game today.....the higher up the pyramid you go, the more the laws get compromised to avoid upsetting the clubs and leagues.
 
With regards to DOGSO when I was training our teacher said at typical Sunday league pub level you should rarely be giving red cards for dogso as even if the striker had an empty goal from five yards the 9/10 would miss. I don't totally agree with this but do see the point being made that the laws need to be enforced differently at gras roots than premier league level.
That is for my money some horrible advice. Surely, someone who barely wants to enforce the laws of the game is not the best person to instruct new officials.

While I accept you had to see the incident and I am certainly not judging your decision - you did what you felt right at the time. However, I am with padfoot in principle. Part of the problem with refereeing is lack of consistency and that is something players moan about a lot. The only way to get consistency is to enforce the laws of the game as they are handed to us.

Allowing time to see if a goal comes was good refereeing, when it didn't happen then it is still fine to go back and deal with the incident.
 
That is for my money some horrible advice. Surely, someone who barely wants to enforce the laws of the game is not the best person to instruct new officials.

In fairness the guy was a very good teacher and our class was mainly teenagers. So was trying to teach more real life lessons for them.

Personally since qualifying I much preferred the 'no surprises' style of refereeing.
 
They way I saw it, I allowed a little more time pulled it back and dealt with it by way of a caution... it didnt come into my mind to send him off for DOGSO, I could be right, could be wrong but I dealt with it how I saw fit at the time. I got no complaints from the attacking team, most probably as he got a shot away, if he had been wiped out another story indeed.

The second incident was far more clear cut, reckless tackle wiped him out so I dealt with it, penalty and sending off.

Live by the sword and die by the sword...... also I am glad I stirred the pot... lots of different opinions!
 
And never forget; It's very easy to referee over a forum mate. Or from the touchline!! Bit different to being on the pitch, up with play and in the moment.

:)
 
The second incident was far more clear cut, reckless tackle wiped him out so I dealt with it, penalty and sending off.

Live by the sword and die by the sword...... also I am glad I stirred the pot... lots of different opinions!

Sent off or second yellow?
 
Laws need to be enforced correctly throughout all levels of football........the laws don't differentiate between the Premier league and a sunday morning league......it is our primary function to facilitate a game of football in line with the LOTG.....

That is the problem with the game today.....the higher up the pyramid you go, the more the laws get compromised to avoid upsetting the clubs and leagues.

Padfoot, totally agree with your overall point that the advice given to the newly qualified referees in this instance was distinctly unhelpful. That said, surely DOGSO DOES differentiate between Premier League and Sunday League as an obvious goal scoring opportunity for a Premier player is likely to occur more frequently than one for a Sunday League player? Much like you'd be more willing to play advantage for a Premier League player / team because of the different skill levels involved. So same laws but correctly differing choices by the referee .....
 
Padfoot, totally agree with your overall point that the advice given to the newly qualified referees in this instance was distinctly unhelpful. That said, surely DOGSO DOES differentiate between Premier League and Sunday League as an obvious goal scoring opportunity for a Premier player is likely to occur more frequently than one for a Sunday League player? Much like you'd be more willing to play advantage for a Premier League player / team because of the different skill levels involved. So same laws but correctly differing choices by the referee .....

That wasn't the point that was being made by the instructor.......he was suggesting that a referee shouldn't dismiss for DOGSO when it occurred because the skill level of the Sunday player meant that were likely to squander the GSO anyway.......very different to how frequently those OGSO occurr.
 
OK let me shoot some holes in this DOGSO debate.

If premier league players are more likely tonscore so dogso happens more then why in the premier league don't we get scores of 13-5 16-1 6-5 10-0 etc every week (yet do in Sunday football). Surely this means there's MORE goalscoring opportunity in Sunday league so we should award dogso MORE?

And secondly, If the strikers are worse then so are the goal keepers so still DOGSO.

Didier drogba should have the same right to being given DOGSO as little Jimmy Smith from Langley Village Eagles U14s B Team Reserves. Its as simple as that
 
I googled Langley Village Eagles and, unless google is having an off day, there is no such team. In which case, your last sentence would imply that DOGSO's should never be given

Just saying, like ;)
 
Am I not right in thinking that DOGSO is very simply Denying an obvious goals scoring opportunity so the skill level of the player with that opportunity is irrelevant, Didier Drogba and Jimmy Smith have the same opportunity to score and they have been denied it by an apposing player, red card...simples!!

I agree (as I often find myself doing) with The Monkey and The Foot!!
 
Back
Top