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Penalty at the very end

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PinnerPaul

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Don't think we've discussed this for a while but its actually just happened in real life - QPRU23s.

Penalty at the end, spot kick saved, player puts rebound away but ref disallows it saying time is up.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the general consensus was that we should warn all the players before kick is taken that time is up - no rebounds or of course decide that time wasn't quite up - allow the goal and then blow up for full time.

Of course ref here may have verbally warned everyone and technically he was correct, but I think we all decided that without any pre warning, you're just asking for grief.

All agree?
 
The Ref Stop
yeah agreed, you absolutely must tell the players if that's what's happening here, massive issues with match control if it goes wrong!
 
PinnerPaul said:
Don't think we've discussed this for a while but its actually just happened in real life - QPRU23s.

Penalty at the end, spot kick saved, player puts rebound away but ref disallows it saying time is up.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the general consensus was that we should warn all the players before kick is taken that time is up - no rebounds or of course decide that time wasn't quite up - allow the goal and then blow up for full time.

Of course ref here may have verbally warned everyone and technically he was correct, but I think we all decided that without any pre warning, you're just asking for grief.

All agree?
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It's always amazed me that some referees are daft enough to do this to be honest.

Added time is always at the discretion of the referee. If you think there's enough time for the penalty kick - there's at least another 3 seconds for the conclusion to happen. ... :rolleyes:
 
Kes said:
It's always amazed me that some referees are daft enough to do this to be honest.

Added time is always at the discretion of the referee. If you think there's enough time for the penalty kick - there's at least another 3 seconds for the conclusion to happen. ... :rolleyes:
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This may be easy if comp rules allow added time. Some comp rules don't (it's a different debate if LOTG allows this). And given most coaching staff keep time you don't really have much choice if the kick is being taken well after when the game is supposed to end.
 
one said:
This may be easy if comp rules allow added time. Some comp rules don't (it's a different debate if LOTG allows this). And given most coaching staff keep time you don't really have much choice if the kick is being taken well after when the game is supposed to end.
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5-10 seconds you do.

Always. ;)
 
one said:
This may be easy if comp rules allow added time. Some comp rules don't (it's a different debate if LOTG allows this). And given most coaching staff keep time you don't really have much choice if the kick is being taken well after when the game is supposed to end.
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Think that is an Aussie thing. And still not sure I agree that competition rules are allowed to stipulate no added time, surely lotg trumps them. Lotg state what can be varied and added time is not one of them. I suppose loosely the time played but it does say the referee should add on time lost (not a direct quote).
However I understand why it's done and obviously nobody is going to get in trouble for it so its of no real significance, really!
Out of interest, where the comp rules state no added time does that also mean time is not added on for the conclusion of a penalty kick? Length of game on clock bang and we are done?
 
It isn't a lot different to blowing for full time straight after a stoppage time goal is scored, most referee coaches would normally advocate restarting and playing a few more seconds, even if as few as ten. Otherwise you are saying that the ball hit the back of the net at the very exact moment time was up, and that is likely to get you a load of grief.

Same applies to a penalty at the end, I would always advise finding a few more seconds (and as above restarting if it is scored). But if you really are insistent on it being the last kick of the game you have to tell the players, you might as well tell them to not bother lining up on the edge of the area as they would be wasting their time.
 
RustyRef said:
It isn't a lot different to blowing for full time straight after a stoppage time goal is scored, most referee coaches would normally advocate restarting and playing a few more seconds, even if as few as ten. Otherwise you are saying that the ball hit the back of the net at the very exact moment time was up, and that is likely to get you a load of grief.

Same applies to a penalty at the end, I would always advise finding a few more seconds (and as above restarting if it is scored). But if you really are insistent on it being the last kick of the game you have to tell the players, you might as well tell them to not bother lining up on the edge of the area as they would be wasting their time.
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^ ^ ^ This ^ ^ ^
 
The only possible reason to ever do this...is to be able to say that you've done it.


Other than that, play out the rebound at the very least. If it's a tight game, do a restart and a few seconds of play to give you the deniability that you didn't extend play to allow for the move that resulted in that last decisive penalty. If it's a one-sided game, or the penalty would only have extended the winning team's lead, it's fine to call it directly after the penalty is scored/missed. But even then, I'd still see where the rebound goes.
 
JamesL said:
Think that is an Aussie thing. And still not sure I agree that competition rules are allowed to stipulate no added time, surely lotg trumps them. Lotg state what can be varied and added time is not one of them. I suppose loosely the time played but it does say the referee should add on time lost (not a direct quote).
However I understand why it's done and obviously nobody is going to get in trouble for it so its of no real significance, really!
Out of interest, where the comp rules state no added time does that also mean time is not added on for the conclusion of a penalty kick? Length of game on clock bang and we are done?
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We have lots of grassroots games with no ARs and rolling subs (with ball in play), different match durations, and the local code is there’s no mandated added time in grassroots matches (mens 6th tier down).

However, common sense is, if there’s an injury or time wasting, then add time and communicate it. There are also youth comps small sided tournaments on the buzzer where obvs no added time but a penalty would have to be completed ;)

Not Oz ;)
 
one said:
This may be easy if comp rules allow added time. Some comp rules don't (it's a different debate if LOTG allows this). And given most coaching staff keep time you don't really have much choice if the kick is being taken well after when the game is supposed to end.
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I think Championship level U23 games do allow added time though!
 
santa sangria said:
We have lots of grassroots games with no ARs and rolling subs (with ball in play), different match durations, and the local code is there’s no mandated added time in grassroots matches (mens 6th tier down).

However, common sense is, if there’s an injury or time wasting, then add time and communicate it. There are also youth comps small sided tournaments on the buzzer where obvs no added time but a penalty would have to be completed ;)

Not Oz ;)
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Fair enough. Just I only ever recall our friend one posting about the no added time. Still don't think it is coherent with lotg.
 
Been discussed before. @RustyRef summed up the previous consensus, which I agree with. My whistle is silent 'til the ball is cleared from danger
 
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Thanks all - the barmy thing about this is that the score was 0-3 at the time and the goal would have made it 1-3.

Surely you just give the goal - nothing to be 'won' in these games - its all about development after all.

As a pure coincidence the senior side also scored with last kick of the game - as someone suggested above the ref on Saturday, allowed Nottm Forest to kick off after the goal before immediately blowing his whistle for FT.
 
PinnerPaul said:
As a pure coincidence the senior side also scored with last kick of the game - as someone suggested above the ref on Saturday, allowed Nottm Forest to kick off after the goal before immediately blowing his whistle for FT.
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You will be very hard pushed to find evidence of a senior referee these days ending the game on a goal. Their coach would tear them to pieces.
 
This is one where I depart slightly from the consensus, depending on how much time is left when I call the PK. The LOTG tell us exactly how to handle a PK if time expires before it is taken--the kick ends the game. (If there is notable time left when the PK is called, I do join the view of add on a few more seconds for the delay caused by the PK.) And I do agree completely with the idea that in the unusual case where the PK ends the game, the R is asking for trouble if he doesn't tell players. (And the worst case isn't a rebound--it's the legal pass to a teammate who successfully kicks it in . . . .)

This is the only time I would end a game without going to the KO. (One of the historical reasons to have the KO is that ending the game made it too late to fix an error, such as a poorly communicated OS flag from the AR. That reason is no longer there, as they tweaked the language on when a call can be changed at the end of the game to include the R leaving the field, not just signalling the end.)
 
As I said not allowing added time is a different debate. And no LOTG does not Trump it. The reason behind it is very practical. We have had games replayed or results nullified because of mishandling of PK being after time is over. The response is generally simple, if you are not happy applying our rules, don't referee our games.
@JamesL the answer to your last question is no. Time is extended for a penalty.

One thing I have not read so far is if a match changing penalty is awarded in last few seconds, it is very rare for it to be taken within a minute. So it will be very obvious the kick is taken after full time. Some games are played at grounds with a scoreboard and clock. Reserve grade and below in those comps have no added time.
 
RustyRef said:
you might as well tell them to not bother lining up on the edge of the area as they would be wasting their time.
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Definitely don't recommend this. It can get you into trouble. Defenders have the right and CAN legally stop a goal from being scored in the OP scenario. Just tell them you extending time to complete the penalty.
 
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