Not sure if this is the right section to post this in but basically what happened was yesterday I reffed an U16 game Reds v Blues. I’m one of those referees who lets quite a lot of physical contact go but I think yesterday probably just let too much go as almost all pushes and barges I just let play go on and by half time was hugely regretting this strategy as I could tell players where losing trust in my decisions to give any fouls at all. Then in the second half instead of doing what I should have done by clamping down on all physical contact to regain my match control I decided to be consistent and stick with my approach of letting all physical contact go which towards the end of the game I hugely began to regret. About 5 mins from full time shoulder barge by blue player on red which I let go and then immediately after red player gets up and shoulder barges blue player off the ball I let both of them go which causes Blue team manager to erupt and start shouting at me and then threatening to fight opposition manager. Instead of once again doing what I should’ve and spoke to him I just let it go which I hugely regret doing. Then once the match ended I got payment from red side no problem then as I went over to blue team I asked for my money to which he replied that I didn’t deserve my money and that he was reporting me to the league and that I’m a disgrace. Overall it was just a nightmare game in the end and one to forget. Was just hoping for some pointers for things I could’ve done differently and also other people’s tolerance levels for physical contact.
One of those games
- Thread starter Rowanmano
- Start date
My foul recognition thresholds are also quite high. Sounds to me like your reflection on the game is spot on and you'll be a better Ref 'tomorrow'
You can't learn much from good experiences. You messed up, it's understandable (it is to me), just have a word with yourself and get back out there
Everyone has bad games, don’t beat yourself up. You can only learn from your mistakes. Just make sure to clamp down on dissent early on, otherwise it will run all over you and it gets to a point where its too late.
What is stopping you calling these fouls. You accept them as fair or is there something else? To me you are describing what sound like fouls and to appear to be accepting as such, so is there something else holding you back?
As BC said these tougher games are where we learn the most. Good reflection. Now think. About what you could have done and go out and do it in your next game.
On a slightly side note, why on earth do UK counties make referees have to try and collect money after the game? Of course you will then get occasions like this where coaches upset over what they think is bad officiating will give trouble over payment. Why put refs through this? Here in Australia we collect payment before the game starts. Saves a heap of ill feeling later.
santa sangria
RefChat Addict
It's nuts. Here (Funland) we get paid monthly by the local or national FA, automated system including all travel expenses etc.
The system we have is based on Torneo Pal: https://www.torneopal.com/ (this is what you could have won
)
Kes
I'll Decide ...
Sounds like you at least know where you went wrong.
Sometimes you can find a game (and your match control) getting away from you with a couple of hesitant moments or decisions. I've done it on more than one occasion in the past as have most others on here I'd guess.
Hopefully you won't allow it to happen again, but in the situation you describe above, at half time, realising I'd let things get out of hand, I'd have been tempted to perhaps go over to both sets of coaches/players and apologise by way of explanation and a pledge to tighten things up and have a better game second half. Easy for some, not so easy for others - comes down to your personality I suppose. Something along the lines of:
"Okay guys, it's pretty clear I've had a poor first half there and have let too much go which has affected the game badly. I'm gonna tighten up on fouls this half before it all gets out of hand - please accept my apology for a 5hit 45 mins"
Not everybody's cup of tea I know, but an option none the less. Remember that fundamentally, people are more responsive and respectful for a bit of humble pie and honesty than not.
So long as you give the same spiel to both teams and then (and this is the most important bit obviously) totally carry out that pledge in the second half, there's a chance it could be turned around and be all smiles at the end of the day.Like I said, just an option, though some on here would no doubt advise against it.
At grass roots level in the UK referees do generally get paid on the day and the protocol is almost always that payment is made before the match. There may well be cases where payment comes after the match but I believe such cases are rare as the potential problems are many and obvious to all parties. Clubs are well used to paying before the match and I've never had a problem with being paid like this.
I'd disagree with that and say that although some leagues ask for payment before, the majority in my experience either give the teams the choice of before/after, or state immediately after. Agree with you that it's a bit daft at grassroots, but...
At steps 7-5 I understand the delay - you're often asked to fill out a match card for expenses before the match, which then disappears off to the club secretary/treasurer during the match so that the money can be handed to you after. And similarly, they may wish to tally up gate receipts and use that money to pay the refs. There are good reasons for paying after the match at top level amateur/semi-pro level, so I would guess that culture has just filtered down to grassroots without any real thought being put in.
one
RefChat Addict
Games generally go pear shaped when the referee's foul recognition or level of foul tolerance does not match/complement their level of game/player management.
Game/player management skills are learnt over time. Foul recognition is the same. However foul tolerance level is a choice. If that level is impacting the game negatively you don't necessarily need to change your tolerance level. You can mange the game/players. However if you have reached the limit of that skil, you should recognise it and then is the time to change the tolerance level. Hope this makes sense.
Stick with it. As said by others, tough games teach you the most and you'd be a better referee for it.
Game/player management skills are learnt over time. Foul recognition is the same. However foul tolerance level is a choice. If that level is impacting the game negatively you don't necessarily need to change your tolerance level. You can mange the game/players. However if you have reached the limit of that skil, you should recognise it and then is the time to change the tolerance level. Hope this makes sense.
Stick with it. As said by others, tough games teach you the most and you'd be a better referee for it.
ChasObserverRefDeveloper
Regular Contributor
One reason for post-match payment is the risk of a match fee being left in a changing room or pitch side bag while the game goes on. Sadly there are dishonest folks around. Carrying the match fee on the field of play whilst refereeing is of course a problem, especially as coins often make up part of the fee after subs are collected.
In my experience this is often the cause of that kind of game which slowly slips away from you. It's also a problem which often comes from a good place ('I'm going to let the players play' and/or 'it is a contact sport', etc). Then before you know it you've played advantage where the team weren't good enough to do anything with it from where they were or, as in this case, you let the game flow to the point that the players are expecting decisions you aren't giving.
This is where adjusting your tolerances becomes important, but it's really hard to do that because those are based on your values/principles. Recognising that is the first step, which you did, the next is to actually change the behaviour. Once you've committed to that, it's easier to start pulling up the tighter decisions - and sometimes you need only do that for 5/10 minutes before relaxing more to find the right level for the players/game.
I'm too much grass roots for my matches to have gate receipts.
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
A couple more thoughts.
Learning where to set the bar is really where the key to foul recognition is. And it is age/level dependent. (For me one of the hardest things to do is ref an older level game and then do a younger game right after.) In the U16 game, the foul bar might have been right for competitive adult, but not for the game you had.
Don't be afraid to move the bar as the game evolves. I think it is something that is hard to get used to, but is an invaluable skill. Don't get caught in the false sense of "well, I haven't called it yet, so I'm stuck with a high bar."
The first five/ten minutes of the second half are a good time to focus on control, especially if you think at half time you were too loose in the first half. Those 5-10 minutes can set the stage for the rest of the game. You can loosen after that--if the game can handle it. It is much harder to clamp down later in the second half than to clamp down at the start of the second half and loosen as appropriate.
Learning where to set the bar is really where the key to foul recognition is. And it is age/level dependent. (For me one of the hardest things to do is ref an older level game and then do a younger game right after.) In the U16 game, the foul bar might have been right for competitive adult, but not for the game you had.
Don't be afraid to move the bar as the game evolves. I think it is something that is hard to get used to, but is an invaluable skill. Don't get caught in the false sense of "well, I haven't called it yet, so I'm stuck with a high bar."
The first five/ten minutes of the second half are a good time to focus on control, especially if you think at half time you were too loose in the first half. Those 5-10 minutes can set the stage for the rest of the game. You can loosen after that--if the game can handle it. It is much harder to clamp down later in the second half than to clamp down at the start of the second half and loosen as appropriate.
Justylove
RefChat Addict
Yep, you have the opportunity to set the tone in terms of what's acceptable or not. It's a skill that you learn over time, it doesn't come immediately.
one
RefChat Addict
75% of my cards are in the last 25% of the game. This is partly due to players getting more tense (in game play, gamesmanship and dissent etc..) but also partly due to moving the bar to make sure the increase in tenacity does not lead to loss of match control.
one
RefChat Addict
More than one way to skin a75% of my cards are in the first 25% of the game. Let them know whose boss
Gamespoiler
Well-Known Member
If you can identify yourself you’ve been too lenient, sorry suggested apologising to teams at half time about having a poor first half. Personally I wouldn’t recommend that. I would suggest instead you tell players you’ve let things go to allow the game to flow but have noticed the challenges are now borderline fouls and players are reacting negatively so you’re going to clamp down to avoid any potential conflicts. Make it sound like it’s the payers fault rather than yours whilst retaining credibility. In terms of asking for fee from a refuser, I’d just walk away and report him. Leagues take a dim view on this
I'm the type who wants to let the game flow but more often than not it doesn't do the game any good. I feel now that unless they are through on goal im blowing for the foul as when I dont match control slips and I end up cautioning to regain control when my leniency has been the cause of the loss of control in the first place.