OFINABUS?

[zarathustra]

Me thinks the lady doth protest too much.

We all have different tolerances to dissent and offinabus, but there is something wrong with telling a player they have committed an offence and then telling them that you are going to ignore it.

 

[GraemeS]

So you're officiating a game, attacker calls a defender a fat p*ick, do you send him off? That is definitely insulting and so is an OFFINBUS offence under law. If you do send someone off every single time without fail then fair enough, but I imagine you don't end up with many players left on the pitch in the games you officiate. If you don't send them off, then you are doing exactly the same thing I'm doing, but just ignoring what's going on. By visibily calling the player over and talking to them, telling them that what they're saying is an insult and could be a red card so they need to calm down, it manages the situation better than ignoring what's being said. Defender doesn't get frustrated, attacker knows you are listening and aware of what's happening and if he doesn't calm down, has no complaints if he is sent off.

How you're all acting like this is seriously wrong when the official guidelines is to ignore OFFINBUS at higher levels because customers pay is a joke. Officially refs are told to ignore the law, then you're jumping on me for not applying the law every time!

I think you need to take a moment and re-read @Peter Grove's post. Everyone is allowed a sliding scale, no one objects to that concept, but you have to be aware of the difference between what you initially said and how you're phrasing it now?

The way you phrased it initially was "You have committed OFFINABUS but I'm not going to punish you for it". That is wrong.
The scenario you're describing now is "You need to be aware that you're coming pretty close to the line of what I might consider OFFINABUS, calm down before you cross that line." That is absolutely fine and good, proactive refereeing.

But I think it's important that you understand the distinction between those two statements, so that you don't get yourself in trouble in future. As a referee, you set the line and it's fine to warn someone if they're approaching it. But once they cross whatever line you've set, they have to be gone, no further warnings past that point.

 

[Big Cat]

attacker calls a defender a fat p*ick, do you send him off

I'm with your argument in some respects, but the phraseology you're using with players is problematic
With respect to the insult quoted. I had exactly this in an U18 game last year. I cautioned the player for AA
This was a mistake that I regretted because it was very likely that the opponent was indeed insulted

 

[TSHudson]

I like how everyone is pretending they don't do exactly the same. Maybe not vocally with the player, but I guarantee you let OFFINBUS offences slide every game, otherwise you'd end up with no players on the pitch.

Calling a player over and explaining "you've called the the opponent [insert insult] / told the opponent to fck off. The law is language or gesture that's offensive, insulting or abusive could be a red card. I'm not sending you off for what you've just said, but this is your last warning" I don't see what's wrong with that or how it's getting myself into trouble.

 

[zarathustra]

Because you are telling the player that you are letting it go.

The moment you tell a player that you recognise they have committed an offence and that you are going to do anything about it you start on a slippery slope.

What if you let a player off in the first half and then send a player off for OFFINABUS. How do you explain that you're willing to give player A a pass but not player B?

The minute you let one player get away with it you need to let every player get away with it.

Especially if another player hears you tell player A that you aren't going to send them off.

 

[GraemeS]

I like how everyone is pretending they don't do exactly the same. Maybe not vocally with the player, but I guarantee you let OFFINBUS offences slide every game, otherwise you'd end up with no players on the pitch.

Calling a player over and explaining "you've called the the opponent [insert insult] / told the opponent to fck off. The law is language or gesture that's offensive, insulting or abusive could be a red card. I'm not sending you off for what you've just said, but this is your last warning" I don't see what's wrong with that or how it's getting myself into trouble.

You're not listening, so I'm going to give this one more go and then give up.

What is and isn't OFFINABUS is entirely up to you as the referee on the day. Personally, I wouldn't count one use of the word "pr*ck" as OFFINABUS, so I won't send off for it. I may choose to have a conversation with a player and tell him to calm down, but I won't send off because on my pitch, that doesn't qualify as OFFINABUS. If it qualified as OFFINABUS, I would show a red card, but there are plenty of things that might count as "offensive" in common parlance that don't necessarily meet the LOTG standard of the word.

The reason this matters is is because you need to know how to explain yourself if you're being observed and this comes up. If an observer comes up to you after the match and says "red 9 called his opponent a pr*ck, why didn't you send him off for that?", you need to be able to give the correct answer. If you say "I didn't consider that offensive enough to meet the threshold for OFFINABUS" then you should be fine. If you say "I considered that OFFINABUS but decided to warn him rather than send him off" then you'll drop a LOT of marks in application of law and/or match control. Probably to the extent that one observation where you give that wrong answer will derail your whole promotion season.

None of us are saying you should send off for every swear word or mild insult. But you need to be able to explain why you've chosen not to, the wrong answer could tie you up in serious knots, either with observers or with players later in the match if you fail to show the same bending of the laws consistently.

 

[TSHudson]

I mean we're saying the same thing aren't we?! Except in one instance I remind a player that what they're saying could be a red and you don't. That's the only difference. I'm not saying I would not give a red if they have done what I consider OFFINBUS, I'm just telling a player that technically he could be sent off, but it's not warranted on this occasion and needs to calm down.

 

[GraemeS]

I mean we're saying the same thing aren't we?! Except in one instance I remind a player that what they're saying could be a red and you don't. That's the only difference. I'm not saying I would not give a red if they have done what I consider OFFINBUS, I'm just telling a player that technically he could be sent off, but it's not warranted on this occasion and needs to calm down.

I've already explained the distinction 3 times, I'm not going to waste any more times trying to rephrase the exact same point a 4th way.

 

[Mintyref]

So have you issued a red card for every single OFFINBUS offence in every single game you've officiated? So every single time an attacker has called a defender a p*ick you've sent them off? That claim is as untrue as it is absurd. EVERYONE, as this whole thread shows, has a sliding tolerance for OFFINBUS. Most of you seem to be pretending, both on here and on the pitch, that you don't. Some of you have even admitted to pretending / acting like you haven't heard it during the game. Instead, I choose not to ignore it and to talk to a player like about what they're doing, that's the only difference here.


I was talking in the context of why laws exist. Fouls (in all forms, tripping, kicking, pushing, pulling etc) and handball laws exist because they have a direct impact on the game and if they didn't, we would be playing rugby and not football. Dissent and OFFINBUS have no direct impact on the actual game and the law only exists to help with match control.

Yes, every OFFINABUS on my pitch resulted in a dismissal. But as I already stated, it depends on your tolerance. By definition, if I thought it was, it resulted in a red card, if not then it didn't.

 

[one]

@TSHudson, This thread has gone for two extra pages because you don't seem to understand the difference between "is" and "could".
Your post #39

I explain what the law is and why what they've said is dissent / OFFINBUS.

Your post #67

Except in one instance I remind a player that what they're saying could be a red

OFFINABS "is" a red. No if's, no but's. If you or any other referee don't red card it, it is your/their choice, not because it "could" be a red.

You are either genuine in not understanding it which is fine. Or you are pretending which is also fine, you had us going for two pages.

 

[RustyRef]

Yes, every OFFINABUS on my pitch resulted in a dismissal. But as I already stated, it depends on your tolerance. By definition, if I thought it was, it resulted in a red card, if not then it didn't.

Did it really? So if a player fluffed a shot and shouted bollox or f*** you sent them off, I find it very hard to believe that whenever a player swore you sent them off? This is the problem and why we should leave each other alone, different people will have very different views as to what constitutes offensive, insulting or abusive language.

 

[one]

Did it really? So if a player fluffed a shot and shouted bollox or f*** you sent them off, I find it very hard to believe that whenever a player swore you sent them off? This is the problem and why we should leave each other alone, different people will have very different views as to what constitutes offensive, insulting or abusive language.

I think you are misreading the debate here. It is not about asking other referees what to consider offinabus. Its about asking them if they are not going to send off for whatever is said, don't tell the player "this is offensive, the law says I have to send you off for it, but I am not going to". Manage it a different way rather than make it blatant you are ignoring the laws.

 

[Mintyref]

Did it really? So if a player fluffed a shot and shouted bollox or f*** you sent them off, I find it very hard to believe that whenever a player swore you sent them off? This is the problem and why we should leave each other alone, different people will have very different views as to what constitutes offensive, insulting or abusive language.

Perhaps you should think about what I said..........

 

[TSHudson]

You are either genuine in not understanding it which is fine. Or you are pretending which is also fine, you had us going for two pages.

I think maybe you're taking every single word very specifically on an online forum