OFINABUS?
- Thread starter kierang
- Start date
Peter Grove
RefChat Addict
I'm not so sure. The word he uses to describe it is "aggressive" and then he asks if it was offensive, insulting or abusive. I think it would depend on just how aggressive it was. I can imagine a level of aggression that would rise to the level of abuse but I can also imagine a lower level of aggressiveness that would not reach that threshold.
The words themselves don't necessarily constitute OFFINABUS for me. For example, if the player said them in an obviously light-hearted manner, and was a player who had previously shown no signs of bad behaviour or dissent, that would make it a different calculation. So for me, it would come down to the manner in which the words were delivered, combined with the player's previous conduct and the overall atmosphere of the game the up to that point.
Kes
I'll Decide ...
I'd echo what Minty posted.
For me, the acid test in these situations is to ask yourself the question "How did it make me feel?"
If the answer is that it made you feel offended, insulted or abused, then you already know the correct course of action.
ABRef
New Member
It's a general frustrated comment. The player doesn't personally know your wife or is attempting to personally attack you, so I guess it's how you decide to take the comment. I personally think a red is over the top in this situation and a word with the player would suffice.
one
RefChat Addict
I fully disagree. It's a smart arse comment that knowingly shows no respect for the referee mocking him (personally) in front of all players. The player here knows exactly what he is doing if I understand the context correctly. Some referees have the ability to counter that with wit, some don't.
Unfortunately the reason we need respect campaigns that never work is the 'acceptable' type of approach we have towards disrespectful players.
The minimum I expect for this is a very strong dissent yellow card. For me, It's not just the words said, it is how it is said as described by the OP.
By the same logic, nothing would really be personal unless the player knew the referee. Now OFFINABUS is only going to apply to either your friends and acquaintances from off the pitch, or it is just going to be for dissent that crosses the line. That's silly.
The comment is personal: it is about my marital relations with my wife. I can't really think of anything more personal than that. The fact that he doesn't know me or my wife is actually a fact that counts against him: do you go up to random strangers in the street and ask them about their relations with their wife? I sure as hell wouldn't and I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to ask me either. It is doubly inappropriate because I am in a position of authority over him as the referee. He disrespects me, my wife, and the authority of the referee by his comment and so he can walk.
How does the player know you have a wife? He doesn't, because it's a throwaway comment.
Whereas "Ref, you are a f***ing _______" is very personal and can be delivered by any sort of stranger!
Justylove
RefChat Addict
Quite simply, the right action comes down to how the referee on the day perceives the comment.
For some on here that it's always going to be a Red, some may just laugh it off and there are others where it will sit somewhere between the two camps.
There is no obvious or right or wrong answer. The player by making the comment is in effect playing Russian roulette as to whether the referee will be offended or not and should have no complaints if they end up walking for it.
Kes
I'll Decide ...
Disagree.
It's the player's way of showing contempt for your decision (dissent at worse).
One might even argue that it's an attempt at trying to be dissentful in a humorous way so as to take the edge of the anger/frustration he feels (?)
As with all occurrences of this nature, it's down to the referee to interpret how he views/feels about the statement and that's the gauntlet the player runs when he does it.
Football refereeing - it's all about angles and opinions.
Perfect analogy.
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
In the games I do (up to 19U), I have an easy send off. Were I doing adult games, I think the line for me would be tone. As I interpret the tone form the OP, I'd have a send off. But I'd also have to take into account expectations for the particular league, level. We saw in the WC that yelling F-you in the face of a ref is nothing, so I'd imagine this would be a nothing at that level. In the low-key adult league I just started playing in, this statement with tone would be way off the charts and an easy send off. End of the day, a player who says that is taking a huge risk of being sent off--but referee are going to reasonably interpret different and some will send off, some will caution, some will have a comeback, and some will do nothing. And that's the way it will stay--unless perhaps IFAB gives us a couple of pages on what are usually and not usually send offs . . .
No one can tell someone else if they should feel offended, insulted or abused. I don't think* I'd feel I was, but I'd 100% back a colleague who thought they were.
(*You had to be there, etc)
Had something similar as a 4. Seemingly nothing throw-in decision, see the player it went against turn and say something towards NAR but didn't look/feel like it warranted any action. Flag goes up. Player had said "Enjoy your extra three pies at half-time, Lino?". In the middle of the park, I may have passed that off with a pat of my belly and a "yeah thats where the match fee goes" or something. Assistant said he he found it offensive. Player walked.
(*You had to be there, etc)
Had something similar as a 4. Seemingly nothing throw-in decision, see the player it went against turn and say something towards NAR but didn't look/feel like it warranted any action. Flag goes up. Player had said "Enjoy your extra three pies at half-time, Lino?". In the middle of the park, I may have passed that off with a pat of my belly and a "yeah thats where the match fee goes" or something. Assistant said he he found it offensive. Player walked.
one
RefChat Addict
The comments here about what the player said is not personal or frustration or being his was of contempt, you can also apply those reasoning if he said "What's the matter ref, did I shag your missus last night or something ?". No he doesn't know if you have a wife, and yes it is his way of contempt, but at the same time he is offensive and shows disrespect.
StiltonRef
Member
Agreed, it is not arguing about a decision it is either banter, so you give a witty response, or offensive which means they take an early bath.
socal lurker
RefChat Addict
Disagree—context. It’s a comment made in direct response to a call or calls the player didn’t like. That is dissent.
Yea agree with that.
I think a lot of occasions are also times to educate the players. Most players have no clue of the actual laws and most see pros telling the ref to fck off and think it's OK for them to do it. Often in this kind of scenario I will call said player over and explain that according to the laws I would be 100% within my rights to sin bin or send them off. I explain what the law is and why what they've said is dissent / OFFINBUS. Depending on the situation, severity of what they've said, aggressive nature etc, I would then take no action or sin bin / send them off.
In this example I think I would just be having a very firm word and would leave it at that, with a warning that another comment is going to be a red / sin bin. But I think that is a huge issue right? As this forum is showing a player could make the same comment three weeks running and receive three different punishments. Now the player shouldn't be saying the comment in the first place, but I also think it's harsh on the players to get three different outcomes to the exact same comment.
Whilst it's correct that players see pros telling the ref to **** off all the time, it is absolutely not true that players think that it's ok to do it. I've never played with a player who thinks that.
I agree with your other sentiments, but let's not think that players are daft or naive, they're neither.