The Ref Stop

Offside yes/no rebound off a defender

This is not offside.

The last deliberate play of the ball was by a defender. At that point, the attacker in an offside position is committing no offence. He can only commit an offence if
  • the last deliberate play was by another attacker, deflected off the defender and the "offender" was in an offside position when it was played
  • the last touch was by another attacker, deflected off the defender and the "offender" was in an offside position when it was played.
The play by a defender followed by a deflection off another defender in this scenario is a red herring. The wording regarding deflection off a goal frame or a defender, only applies if the last deliberate play/touch is by another attacker.

In this scenario, the last deliberate play/touch is by a defender and therefore the "offender" should not be penalised.
 
The Ref Stop
@DB The OP doesnt really make it clear so from his description I am basing my best guess at the defender had full control of the football thus we are in the next phase of play.
A fundamental requirement of offside is that the ball is played firstly by a team mate of the attacker and that isnt evidenced in the scenario so I cant find myself arriving at an offside decision unless other parameters are met in the scenario
 
How I see this incident is that a defender clears it (deliberately) but a teammate is standing in very close proximity; therefore getting struck (it must have been close for the ball to ricochet ("ping") off. From a distance, the ball would just drop). In my opinion, that wouldn't have been a deliberate attempt to play the ball. That defender was the last one to touch the ball before the attacker interfered with play, but that touch was not a deliberate one.

Whilst I see what Brian is saying, I will disagree here and say offside, probably against what a few others think. A ball being struck at a defender in close proximity would be within the same phase of play. Interpretation - a wonderful thing.
 
DB said:
How I see this incident is that a defender clears it (deliberately) but a teammate is standing in very close proximity; therefore getting struck (it must have been close for the ball to ricochet ("ping") off. From a distance, the ball would just drop). In my opinion, that wouldn't have been a deliberate attempt to play the ball. That defender was the last one to touch the ball before the attacker interfered with play, but that touch was not a deliberate one.

Whilst I see what Brian is saying, I will disagree here and say offside, probably against what a few others think. A ball being struck at a defender in close proximity would be within the same phase of play. Interpretation - a wonderful thing.
Click to expand...
The ball must be played or deflected by a team mate of the attacker as the first requirement. And the attacker has to also commit an offence punishable under offside law. Last played/deflection from an opponent means that, in law, he cannot be offside whether he has gained an advantage by being in the offside position or not, as simply, the criteria for an offside offence hasnt been met.
 
I take it all back.... I've just re-read the original posts...

Onside.

For some reason, I assumed that the attacker was offside when originally played through by an attacker, before the defenders intervention. That explains the "phase of play" statements made by a few of you.


Next time, I shall read the originals post (and follow ups) meticulously before voicing an opinion :wide::troll::smug::rolleyes::rolleyes:

I will now sit and write 100 lines consisting of "thou shall read the posts properly instead of being a moron" with joined up writing.
 
Consider this scenario:

Goal kick, keeper taking it. Lone attacker remains on edge of penalty area. He is in an offside position - only one player (keeper) between him and the goal.

Keeper kicks ball, goes over attackers head, hits defender on the back of head and rebounds into path of lone attacker who collects ball, and scores. Not offside - I hope we all agree on that?

The only difference I see between the above scenario and the Op is that is above is from a static restart, the op happened in open play.
 
DB said:
How I see this incident is that a defender clears it (deliberately) but a teammate is standing in very close proximity; therefore getting struck (it must have been close for the ball to ricochet ("ping") off. From a distance, the ball would just drop). In my opinion, that wouldn't have been a deliberate attempt to play the ball. That defender was the last one to touch the ball before the attacker interfered with play, but that touch was not a deliberate one.

Whilst I see what Brian is saying, I will disagree here and say offside, probably against what a few others think. A ball being struck at a defender in close proximity would be within the same phase of play. Interpretation - a wonderful thing.
Click to expand...
So last deliberate play and last touch by a defender and you want to call offside?

Note to self (reason for edit)
I must read all posts in a thread before posting something like this
I must read all posts in a thread before posting something like this
I must read all posts in a thread before posting something like this
I must read all posts in a thread before posting something like this
I must read all posts in a thread before posting something like this
I must read all posts in a thread before posting something like this
I must read all posts in a thread before posting something like this
I must read all posts in a thread before posting something like this
I must read all posts in a thread before posting something like this
I must read all posts in a thread before posting something like this
I must read all posts in a thread before posting something like this
I must read all posts in a thread before posting something like this
I must read all posts in a thread before posting something like this
I must read all posts in a thread before posting something like this
I must read all posts in a thread before posting something like this
I must read all posts in a thread before posting something like this...
 
I've had enough of internetting today :rofl:

We spoke about it for twenty minutes then decided you were right, Brian :wall:
 
A slightly different question: An attacking player is in an offside position when another attacking player shoots. The shot is blocked by a defender who has thrown himself in front of the attacker with the ball in anticipation of the shot. It bounces off him to the attacker who was offside.

Is that deliberately playing the ball? He certainly intended to block the shot. Is it a 'save'?
 
Trip said:
A slightly different question: An attacking player is in an offside position when another attacking player shoots. The shot is blocked by a defender who has thrown himself in front of the attacker with the ball in anticipation of the shot. It bounces off him to the attacker who was offside.

Is that deliberately playing the ball? He certainly intended to block the shot. Is it a 'save'?
Click to expand...

I'd have to say no, not playing the ball. In this case the block is the equivalent of a keeper making a save and the rebound falls to an offiside attacking player. For me, 'playing the ball' means trying to kick or head it away with some intention.
 
DB said:
Regardless of the phase of play, the law is simple...
"A player in an offside position receiving the ball from an opponent who deliberately plays the ball (except from a deliberate save by any opponent) is Not considered to have gained an advantage."

It is clear that the attacker must receive the ball from a defender who deliberately plays the ball. The defender who's back It his has not deliberately played that ball. It sounds to me rather that it hit him accidentally. Offside.
Click to expand...

But....to even "think" about offside, a teammate has to have played/touched the ball in that "phase" of play - don't really like that word, but explains the situation here. Once 1st defender plays the ball attacker is onside until a teammate touches the ball again.
 
PinnerPaul said:
But....to even "think" about offside, a teammate has to have played/touched the ball in that "phase" of play - don't really like that word, but explains the situation here. Once 1st defender plays the ball attacker is onside until a teammate touches the ball again.
Click to expand...

PinnerPaul is spot on. Offside can NEVER be called when the last deliberate play on the ball was from a defender, irrespective of how many other defenders it ricochets off subsequently. It astonishes me that so many referees seem to have such a hazy idea of the requirements for offside.
 
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