RefSix

Offside when ball comes from opponent

one

RefChat Addict
#21
The most confusing part about offside at the moment for me, is interfering with play via challenging.

There was an incident I vaguely remember last month in the Premier League that caused it.

Player was miles offside, ball goes to the corner flag, defender picks it up, offside player goes to challenge/intercept. When does he stop being offside and it becomes a new phase of play? Can he intercept the clearance from the defender? Can he challenge?

My instinct was that he was still offside until the defender moves the ball towards the half-way line, but if he does and its intercepted isn't that an entirely new phase of play? I'm probably overthinking it.
This is one YHTBT. There is no certain formula or system to work with.

For example for me if the defender pushes the ball up a couple of yards with his first touch and then takes a second touch, the second touch starts the next phase. However if the PIOP starts moving towards the defender before or on the first touch, putting him in a better position to challenge/interfere in the next phase (after the second touch) it's an offside offence for me.
But if the PIOP stays nuteral untill the next phase (second touch) and then runs to the defender and challenge, I'd play on.
 

Kes

I'll Decide ...
#22
The most confusing part about offside at the moment for me, is interfering with play via challenging.

There was an incident I vaguely remember last month in the Premier League that caused it.

Player was miles offside, ball goes to the corner flag, defender picks it up, offside player goes to challenge/intercept. When does he stop being offside and it becomes a new phase of play? Can he intercept the clearance from the defender? Can he challenge?

My instinct was that he was still offside until the defender moves the ball towards the half-way line, but if he does and its intercepted isn't that an entirely new phase of play? I'm probably overthinking it.
To be fair, I've never totally got that one either. Thankfully, I've never been AR when that has happened. In the few instances when I've flagged for an offside player coming from an offside position to interfere with play/challenge a defender, it's always been within a couple of seconds of the ball having been originally played forward and an easy sell. :)
 

Martiju

Active Member
#23
To be fair, I've never totally got that one either. Thankfully, I've never been AR when that has happened. In the few instances when I've flagged for an offside player coming from an offside position to interfere with play/challenge a defender, it's always been within a couple of seconds of the ball having been originally played forward and an easy sell. :)
I did have one of these a couple of seasons ago. I think I was the only person in the ground who felt offside had been reset by the defender controlling the ball and touching it forward to clear it. Defender stopped playing when the attacker then moved to block the clearance, referee stared at me (and gave me a hard time back in the changing room) - the thing I remember most vividly was trying to communicate (at the time) why I hadn't put my flag up. Afterwards, was told to stick it up anyway, as that's what everyone's expecting...
 

alexgr

RefChat Addict
#24
I did have one of these a couple of seasons ago. I think I was the only person in the ground who felt offside had been reset by the defender controlling the ball and touching it forward to clear it. Defender stopped playing when the attacker then moved to block the clearance, referee stared at me (and gave me a hard time back in the changing room) - the thing I remember most vividly was trying to communicate (at the time) why I hadn't put my flag up. Afterwards, was told to stick it up anyway, as that's what everyone's expecting...
This just sounds like a referee who either doesn't know the laws or is too afraid to stick to them. Well done you!
 
#25
The most confusing part about offside at the moment for me, is interfering with play via challenging.

There was an incident I vaguely remember last month in the Premier League that caused it.

Player was miles offside, ball goes to the corner flag, defender picks it up, offside player goes to challenge/intercept. When does he stop being offside and it becomes a new phase of play? Can he intercept the clearance from the defender? Can he challenge?

My instinct was that he was still offside until the defender moves the ball towards the half-way line, but if he does and its intercepted isn't that an entirely new phase of play? I'm probably overthinking it.
A nitpick: challenging cannot be interfering with play, only interfering with an opponent.

Once the opponent deliberately plays the ball, the previously OSP player is free to challenge, as the ball was no longer last played by a teammate. So, in evaluating this play, the question is whether the OSP player challenged the defensive player before the defensive player deliberately played the ball.

(The interpretation on this, at least in the U.S., used to be different, as the teaching in the US prior to some of the recent changes was that quickly challenging a defender who gained possession was enough to be OS.)
 
#26
The AR was correct to raise flag because he was not sure if "the last touch by a team mate" was the corner kick or if some other team mate had touched it after that. Then it's up to the referee to make a decision based on that.
Is this the proper protocol in England?

In the US we are told that if we are not sure we should stand still to communicate with the R rather than flagging--not running up the touchline is the signal that there is something that might be a problem in awarding the goal.
 

Ciley Myrus

RefChat Addict
#27
Is this the proper protocol in England?

In the US we are told that if we are not sure we should stand still to communicate with the R rather than flagging--not running up the touchline is the signal that there is something that might be a problem in awarding the goal.

The flag exists for one purpose. To attract the attention of the referee.

Page 188 makes reference to when an undisputed goal is scored, no flag is raised, it would seem reasonable then for the opposite to apply when a disputed goal is scored..
 
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#28
The flag exists for one purpose. To attract the attention of the referee.

Page 188 makes reference to when an undisputed goal is scored, no flag is raised, it would seem reasonable then for the opposite to apply when a disputed goal is scored..
Certainly reasonable. But I also think the US instructions make sense: an R should never award the goal without looking at the AR, so not really a need to get the attention as there is during active play. So our ARs have three options: flag for an infraction, run up the line for a good goal, and stand still if there is something to be sorted out. The stand still option means that the R won't simply wave off the goal when the AR is unsure whether an infraction occurred. (Of course, at the professional level with mics, this is easier to address than for those of us working without mic systems and buzzer flags.)
 

one

RefChat Addict
#29
Is this the proper protocol in England?

In the US we are told that if we are not sure we should stand still to communicate with the R rather than flagging--not running up the touchline is the signal that there is something that might be a problem in awarding the goal.
It is in Australia. Our English Observerors here can give an answer for England.
 
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