The Ref Stop

Offside Offence Or Goal?

Graham B

Graham B

Member
Level 7 Referee
Hello Everyone,

I had this decision to make recently.
Is this a goal or offside offence? I have attached an image and I am interested in your opinions please.

Basics are this.
1. An attacker is standing in an offside position.
2. An Attacker in an onside position kicks the ball hard towards the goals as either a shot or hard through ball.
3. The Attacker in an offside position runs towards the ball but does not touch it and is about 6ft, maybe a bit less from it as it reached the keeper.
4. The keeper hastily kicks the ball as the attacker approaches.
5. The ball hits the back of a defender and bounces back towards the goal.
6. The Attacker originally in the previous offside position gets to the ball before the keeper, a quick chip and scores.

Please can I have you opinion on this.
I was under observation looking to progress from level 7 to 6 and made a decision that everyone accepted and the game played on. I will let you know my decision and the observers after hearing your views. This was an interested event I think.

Kindest regards
Graham
see image - Sorry it's not great but gives you an idea I think :)

20241115_130459.jpg
 
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The Ref Stop
My first thoughts are offside, only if you feel the goalkeeper kicked it as a reaction to the offside player. If you feel the keeper was unaffected by the attackers presence then its a goal. If you think he's unaffected by the attacker the follow up would be onside.

These are the hard subjective decisions we hate to make but personally if I was on the line I would have a conversation with the ref if I wasn't 100%.
 
Wow this is tricky. This all rests upon whether the goalkeepers action is a save or a deliberate play.

I initially thought goal as it sounds like GK has deliberately played the ball... Why did he kick it instead of picking it up?

But if it is indeed a save (action that stops a ball going into or close to the goal) then the I think that makes the resultant rebound of a defender mean the striker has gained an advantage and is therefore offside.

I think both are possible outcomes dependent on the Goalkeepers action and reason for doing so.
 
Samuel said:
My first thoughts are offside, only if you feel the goalkeeper kicked it as a reaction to the offside player. If you feel the keeper was unaffected by the attackers presence then its a goal.
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He has to attempt to play a ball that impacts an opponents ability to play the ball or an obvious action that clearly impacts an opponent. It's not offside just because he was moving towards the ball forcing the keeper to play it.

For me this can only be a gaining advantage offence or onside.
 
Samuel said:
My first thoughts are offside, only if you feel the goalkeeper kicked it as a reaction to the offside player. If you feel the keeper was unaffected by the attackers presence then its a goal. If you think he's unaffected by the attacker the follow up would be onside.

These are the hard subjective decisions we hate to make but personally if I was on the line I would have a conversation with the ref if I wasn't 100%.
Click to expand...
Thank you for you opinion. I was the referee and the Assistant Referee was a volunteer ie one of the subs, so useless really :) -I had to make a decision and very quickly too...
 
JamesL said:
Wow this is tricky. This all rests upon whether the goalkeepers action is a save or a deliberate play.

I initially thought goal as it sounds like GK has deliberately played the ball... Why did he kick it instead of picking it up?

But if it is indeed a save (action that stops a ball going into or close to the goal) then the I think that makes the resultant rebound of a defender mean the striker has gained an advantage and is therefore offside.

I think both are possible outcomes dependent on the Goalkeepers action and reason for doing so.
Click to expand...

I would agree with this. If you felt the goalkeeper 'saved' the ball for any reason then it's an offside offence.

If you felt the goalkeeper deliberately played the ball, then no offence.

You just have to make that judgement call in the few seconds you have available unless you buy some time and speak to your assistant.
 
For me, given the description of the event, it sounds like the striker can not be offside, interfering with an opponent, as they're too far away.
They could potentially be offside, gaining an advantage, however, if the goalkeepers play isn't enough to constitute a deliberate play.

Here's what law says about a deliberate play:
*‘Deliberate play’ (excluding deliberate handball) is when a player has control of the ball with the possibility of:

  • passing the ball to a team-mate;
  • gaining possession of the ball; or
  • clearing the ball (e.g. by kicking or heading it)
If the pass, attempt to gain possession or clearance by the player in control of the ball is inaccurate or unsuccessful, this does not negate the fact that the player ‘deliberately played’ the ball.

The following criteria should be used, as appropriate, as indicators that a player was in control of the ball and, as a result, can be considered to have ‘deliberately played’ the ball:

  • The ball travelled from distance and the player had a clear view of it
  • The ball was not moving quickly
  • The direction of the ball was not unexpected
  • The player had time to coordinate their body movement, i.e. it was not a case of instinctive stretching or jumping, or a movement that achieved limited contact/control
  • A ball moving on the ground is easier to play than a ball in the air
Click to expand...

In summary, I think, if you can quote extracts from the above to justify your decision, be it onside or offside, you'd most likely be backed by an observer.
 
Hello Everyone,

Thank you for your reponses (and responses to come).

I saw this as a 'offside offence'. I justified this as the Attacker in an offside position forced a hasty save from the goal keeper and not a deliberate play, possibly interfering with play at this stage and consequently got the ball and goal from a deflection whilst in an offside position in addition from a 'save', making this a 'gaining advantage offside offence'.

I actually blew the whistle as he got the ball, and it flew over and in the net, too.

Everyone accepted my offside offence call on the pitch without questioning too, which was handy!

The observer agreed it was an offside offence too - Thank goodness :)

Interesting issue with small amount of time to process.

Kindest regards
Graham
 
A pretty hard decision to get in front of an observer.

As usual a you had to be there.

But I reckon by your description it is a play on, goal stands.

Keeper chose to kick the ball. That is playing the ball. You gave them a life line hahaa I hope that wasn't a key goal.
 
OldNavyRef said:
A pretty hard decision to get in front of an observer.

As usual a you had to be there.

But I reckon by your description it is a play on, goal stands.

Keeper chose to kick the ball. That is playing the ball. You gave them a life line hahaa I hope that wasn't a key goal.
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Thank you for your reponse. It happened extremely quickly. The offside attacker interfered with play forcing the keeper to make a mess of a save (as I saw it), not a playing the ball, all players both sides agreed very easily with me as an offside call, thank goodness. I think if I had give a goal it would have been a hard sell. Interesting event though :)
 
Not an experienced ref, but I would say if the attacker was already OffS and then made a play for the ball then he is still going to be OffS as he is looking to gain an advantage from being in that position.
 
RonnieM said:
Not an experienced ref, but I would say if the attacker was already OffS and then made a play for the ball then he is still going to be OffS as he is looking to gain an advantage from being in that position.
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Your last comment isn’t quite right. Below is definition of gaining an advantage.

gaining an advantage by playing the ball or interfering with an opponent when it has:
• rebounded or been deflected off the goalpost, crossbar, match official or an opponent
• been deliberately saved by any opponent
 
As many have said, I think it is important to realise that just because the presence of the attacker forced a hasty kick from the keeper that alone does not justify an offside call. The big decision is rather whether you felt that the keeper's kick constituted a save or not. If you do, then (since the bounce off the second defender was not deliberate) the offside can be given.
 
Dan56 said:
As many have said, I think it is important to realise that just because the presence of the attacker forced a hasty kick from the keeper that alone does not justify an offside call. The big decision is rather whether you felt that the keeper's kick constituted a save or not. If you do, then (since the bounce off the second defender was not deliberate) the offside can be given.
Click to expand...
I saw it as a save. Interesting getting everyone's interpretation of this event. Thank you for taking the time to respond. Kindest regards Graham
 
Dan56 said:
As many have said, I think it is important to realise that just because the presence of the attacker forced a hasty kick from the keeper that alone does not justify an offside call. The big decision is rather whether you felt that the keeper's kick constituted a save or not. If you do, then (since the bounce off the second defender was not deliberate) the offside can should be given.
Click to expand...
🙂
 
Graham B said:
I saw it as a save. Interesting getting everyone's interpretation of this event. Thank you for taking the time to respond. Kindest regards Graham
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An unusual, and tricky scenario. Thanks for sharing it.
 
JamesL said:
An unusual, and tricky scenario. Thanks for sharing it.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your help & clarification. Hopefully it helps others as well as me :)

A quick side question if you have the time. - In this scenario could the attacker ever have been offside for interfering with play?
- For example, would he have had to have touched the ball, run infront of the keeper to distort view, or how close to the ball and keeper without touching the ball would he need to be to be considered offside interference on the keeper, would he have to have touched the keeper in a challenge?
I hope this makes sense ok.

Kindest regards
Graham
 
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