The Ref Stop

Offside incident

T

Tangerine1

New Member
Evening all!

I was just wondering peoples views on an offside incident I had today. Ball is played long by orange team towards their striker who is standing in an offside position which the club assistant flags for. However the striker makes no attempt to play the ball and it goes over his head to red keeper. The club assistant is still stood with their flag up however my view was the orange striker hasn't become involved in active play so is therefore not offside. I shout play on and play to the whistle when the red keeper, clearly just looking at the club assistant, passes the ball straight back to the orange striker who subsequently scores. Clearly he thought it was an indirect freekick and play had been stopped for an offside. I allowed the goal.

Just seeing peoples views on this. Right call or would you do something different? Cheers!
 
The Ref Stop
It seems quite simple reading and thinking back. But I'm a new ref so I think it was more a question that I've got the understanding of offside to the letter of the law. It's hard work with CAR's! I've been in the middle for 5 games now all with CAR's who are constantly flagging before the player stood in an offside position becomes involved in active play.
 
You got it correct afaics, it's about determining when the player becomes active, some referees like the player to touch the ball unless 1v1, some prefer the flag a bit earlier.

But I think the touching /challenging a player for the ball is the most common.
 
Correct decision but this is the bit I am confused about
Tangerine1 said:
I shout play on and play to the whistle when the red keeper, clearly just looking at the club assistant, passes the ball straight back to the orange striker when the red keeper, clearly just looking at the club assistant,
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Did the keeper not hear you? Or had the keeper already released the ball when you shouted?

Although you would blame this on the keeper, there has been a goal scored 'unfairly' and the CAR (who is part of a team lead by you) is not blameless either. I would be thinking how would I avoid this in the future and if it did happen again, how would I deal with it.
 
The keeper hadn't released the ball when I was shouting play on, so it's maybe a case of he didn't hear me. I would say a learning point is maybe be louder but there was no protests from the team that conceded the goal with their captain saying they heard me. It did seem unfair, but at the same time an offside hadn't occurred so it also felt unfair bringing play back for the incorrect flag and disallowing the goal...interested on peoples views on how to avoid this? Unfortunately the league I officiate in normally use their subs as CAR's so they are forever changing with roll on roll offs.
 
Tangerine1 said:
Evening all!

I was just wondering peoples views on an offside incident I had today. Ball is played long by orange team towards their striker who is standing in an offside position which the club assistant flags for. However the striker makes no attempt to play the ball and it goes over his head to red keeper. The club assistant is still stood with their flag up however my view was the orange striker hasn't become involved in active play so is therefore not offside. I shout play on and play to the whistle when the red keeper, clearly just looking at the club assistant, passes the ball straight back to the orange striker who subsequently scores. Clearly he thought it was an indirect freekick and play had been stopped for an offside. I allowed the goal.

Just seeing peoples views on this. Right call or would you do something different? Cheers!
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Did you also wave down the CAR's flag? If you did nothing visually to indicate the flag wasn't valid, the goalkeeper isn't wrong to think play will be stopped soon. Shouting only works if they hear it, which isn't alone reliable.

However, if you hadn't blown the whistle, why would they think play has been stopped?
Since the attacker was never involved in play, and merely being IOSP is not an offence, play on. Once the goalkeeper has control and released it, there's no offside at all.

Give the goal, remind players generally to play to whistle, check in with the CAR about when to drop the flag regardless of whether they're right to raise it first, and restart from the centre circle.
 
Tangerine1 said:
but at the same time an offside hadn't occurred so it also felt unfair bringing play back for the incorrect flag and disallowing the goal.
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That is not only unfair but also incorrect. It is not an option.

Tangerine1 said:
interested on peoples views on how to avoid this? Unfortunately the league I officiate in normally use their subs as CAR's so they are forever changing with roll on roll offs.
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A few quick ones i can think of now.
- Be animated (us body language) at the same time as shouting
- Be quicker and louder on the shout
- Give clear instructions to your assistants pre-match

You do the best you can. But sometimes sh!t happens and you just gotta get on with it.
 
As part of my pre-game chat with CARs I explain that if they flag and I am over ruling their decision I will give an obvious thumbs up to acknowledge that I have seen the flag and this is the signal for them to drop the flag.
 
IMHO CAR nightmare, thankfully never have to use them here.

There are some countries/areas where CARs are told not to flag offsides, I’d vote that;)

In the OP, others have advised how to wave down the flag clearly. But I think you could have found a smart solution to disallow the goal. How about, after the goal, tell everyone to wait, go over to the CAR, have the “whispering refs” chat, come back and announce “yes, was offside, CAR saw clearly, interfered with player, no goal, indirect...”

It’s a lie but we know players have (99.9%) no clue about the detail if the offside law. Could you sell it???
 
santa sangria said:
IMHO CAR nightmare, thankfully never have to use them here.

There are some countries/areas where CARs are told not to flag offsides, I’d vote that;)

In the OP, others have advised how to wave down the flag clearly. But I think you could have found a smart solution to disallow the goal. How about, after the goal, tell everyone to wait, go over to the CAR, have the “whispering refs” chat, come back and announce “yes, was offside, CAR saw clearly, interfered with player, no goal, indirect...”

It’s a lie but we know players have (99.9%) no clue about the detail if the offside law. Could you sell it???
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Not if the CAR from the team who scored the goal 😃. Surely he will tell his team mates it was just a nothing talk. And if from the other team, still hard to sell as he has contributed to an opponets' good goal being disallows.
 
It isn't that dissimilar to when a player hears a whistle (that isn't yours) and picks the ball up. You were correct to not give offside, but once the confusion ensues I think I'd be trying to avoid giving what was essentially a very unfair goal.
 
RustyRef said:
It isn't that dissimilar to when a player hears a whistle (that isn't yours) and picks the ball up. You were correct to not give offside, but once the confusion ensues I think I'd be trying to avoid giving what was essentially a very unfair goal.
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I disagree that the goal was unfair. The player should know two things here: first, that the striker did not become involved in the play and second that the whistle had yet to go.
 
The FA need to get rid of CARs
They are the primary cause of discontent week after week. More often than not, they are players who are replaced and then re-replaced during games; most of whom have no interest in what they're doing. They are a pain in the back door even with adequate instruction. I had a game last week with a completely incompetent CAR, so I sacked him and the game settled down nicely with me calling offside
With regards to the OP: I'm going over to the hapless CAR and somehow disallowing the goal. Hopefully, that is
 
CanuckRef said:
I disagree that the goal was unfair. The player should know two things here: first, that the striker did not become involved in the play and second that the whistle had yet to go.
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Unfair is probably the wrong word, perhaps saying not in the spirit of the game is better. I just think referees would be best protecting themselves here. Offside is the wrong decision, but once the confusion ensues it might just be best to give it. At the end of the game no one would be talking about that decision, yet in not giving offside everyone will be talking about the non-offside decision and the impact it had.
 
Big Cat said:
The FA need to get rid of CARs
They are the primary cause of discontent week after week. More often than not, they are players who are replaced and then re-replaced during games; most of whom have no interest in what they're doing. They are a pain in the back door even with adequate instruction. I had a game last week with a completely incompetent CAR, so I sacked him and the game settled down nicely with me calling offside
With regards to the OP: I'm going over to the hapless CAR and somehow disallowing the goal. Hopefully, that is
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CARs are restricted to ball in/out in West Wales. I've had CARs that do give offside but never found them reliable at all tbh, so I'm happy they're not permitted.
 
You need to be very clear in your pre match briefing to CAR. Tell him only to flag when player has touched the ball or challenged a defender explaining clearly exactly what the latter means. As soon as CAR sticks flag up when he shouldn't wave him down with a clear NO play on and at next stoppage go and speak to him and reiterate what you told him pre-match and keep repeating if necessary.
 
This is why I prefer the practice that we have why I officiate, which is no CARs. Very few if any CARs actually want to do it. Often it's a sub, and with roll on roll off subs, you could end up with several different CARs. It want completely unusual to look over and see the flag on the floor. I've no problem explaining that I've given an honest offside decision from my position. I did 2 games today and on both pitches, you couldn't see the lines unless you were really close to them. I explained to all the players and coaches during the pre game explanation on sin bins (all 4 teams and coaches today had no idea how it worked) that you can't see the lines from where we're stood now so play to a whistle. CARs would've been nice for this issue but once I've explained it to people they can either choose to accept what they've seen with their own eyes regarding it being impossible to see the lines. In essence, they're handy on occasions but I'd much rather not have them.
 
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