The Ref Stop

Offside Clarification

S

spuddy1878

RefChat Addict
Just something i picked up in a game i watched last night (as a fan)

Ball gets played forward towards a player in an offside position, he makes a run towards the ball the bends his run when about two yards away from the ball as if to say im not involved in the build up.

The referee blew for offside.

Is he right ?
 
The Ref Stop
If there was another player also close to the ball who was in an onside position who takes the ball, as long as the player im the offside position doesnt interfere with an opponent, I would say onside and this being why they introduced the late flag.

If he is only going towards the ball to influence the defenders decision or interferes with the defender (obstructing) to allow a team mate to get the ball, I would call offside.

Bit of a grey area though.
 
No interference with opponent at all and was a team mate running onto the ball.

I thought he had to touch the ball or as you interfere with opponent to be penalised.
 
Did he see the flag and then bend away? The laws allow an early flag for interfering with play when nobody else is likely to play the ball, see the diagrams.
 
spuddy1878 said:
No interference with opponent at all and was a team mate running onto the ball.

I thought he had to touch the ball or as you interfere with opponent to be penalised.
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If no interference with ball or opposition and another player runs in from and onsode position, then no offside. Wait until the interference occurs.
 
By interference, does it mean he has to touch the ball or interfere with an opponent, running towards ball and then moving away is perfectly legal.
 
spuddy1878 said:
By interference, does it mean he has to touch the ball or interfere with an opponent, running towards ball and then moving away is perfectly legal.
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Basically, yes. I would just say that since the offside law, more so than any other law on the books relies on precise (and non-intuitive) definitions of certain words and phrases, I think it's important to remain as close as possible to the terminology in the law. If a player in an offside position runs towards the ball but does not interfere with play (by touching the ball) or an opponent (according to any of the precise examples given below, of what constitutes interfering with an opponent) then they are not guilty of an offside offence.

Here are the various clauses encompassing the "interfering with an opponent" scenario:
    • preventing an opponent from playing or being able to play the ball by clearly obstructing the opponent’s line of vision or
    • challenging an opponent for the ball or
    • clearly attempting to play a ball which is close when this action impacts on an opponent or
    • making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball
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Simply running towards the ball then turning away without touching it and assuming as stated, that the player did not interfere with an opponent (based on the list above) is not an offence.
 
I would say depending on the scenario you could class the movement to the ball as interference. If the defender has had to clear the ball quickly because the player in an offside position has closed him down even with no intentions of touching the ball, I would say his significantly interfered still even though he hasnt touched the defender or the ball. Similar to blocking the goal keepers view. Indirectly the player interferes.
 
Ref Luke 2203 said:
I would say depending on the scenario you could class the movement to the ball as interference. If the defender has had to clear the ball quickly because the player in an offside position has closed him down even with no intentions of touching the ball, I would say his significantly interfered still even though he hasnt touched the defender or the ball. Similar to blocking the goal keepers view. Indirectly the player interferes.
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This is exactly how I would decide.
Interference doesn’t have to be challenging- if the defender makes a decision based on the proximity of the off side player then, in my opinion, there has been an off side offence.
 
Ref Luke 2203 said:
I would say depending on the scenario you could class the movement to the ball as interference. If the defender has had to clear the ball quickly because the player in an offside position has closed him down even with no intentions of touching the ball, I would say his significantly interfered still even though he hasnt touched the defender or the ball. Similar to blocking the goal keepers view. Indirectly the player interferes.
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Sorry, that's just not supported by the law. Simply influencing the defender into choosing to clear the ball more quickly does not meet any of the definitions of interfering with an opponent. When these definitions/clarifications were first issued, the IFAB was at pains to point out that the offside-positioned player has to clearly affect the opponent's ability to play the ball, not just have an indirect influence their thinking about what to do with the ball. If the attacker hasn't got close enough to the defender to directly and physically affect him, that isn't interfering with an opponent as it is defined in the Laws.

It might be interfering in the broader sense of the word and it might be against what many people think should be allowable in relation to the offside law but it's not enough according to the way the law is written.
 
Peter Grove said:
Sorry, that's just not supported by the law. Simply influencing the defender into choosing to clear the ball more quickly does not meet any of the definitions of interfering with an opponent. When these definitions/clarifications were first issued, the IFAB was at pains to point out that the offside-positioned player has to clearly affect the opponent's ability to play the ball, not just have an indirect influence their thinking about what to do with the ball. If the attacker hasn't got close enough to the defender to directly and physically affect him, that isn't interfering with an opponent as it is defined in the Laws.

It might be interfering in the broader sense of the word and it might be against what many people think should be allowable in relation to the offside law but it's not enough according to the way the law is written.
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Wording is key...
  • making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball
An attacker closing the ball quickly and getting with a few yards as mentioned in the example. Even if he then throws his hands up and doesnt touch ball or defender his carried out an action which will impact the opponents ability to play the ball. If attacked didnt do that, ball wouldnt be in Row Z but would be controlled and played. Thats a pretty reasonable interpretation. Ofc if attacker is no where near then no affect on play and we carry on no matter what action defender choses to do.
 
Ref Luke 2203 said:
Wording is key...
  • making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball
An attacker closing the ball quickly and getting with a few yards as mentioned in the example. Even if he then throws his hands up and doesnt touch ball or defender his carried out an action which will impact the opponents ability to play the ball. If attacked didnt do that, ball wouldnt be in Row Z but would be controlled and played. Thats a pretty reasonable interpretation. Ofc if attacker is no where near then no affect on play and we carry on no matter what action defender choses to do.
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Im with Peter here. I had this with an observer and assistant I over ruled. Ball played over the top. Attacker in offside position. Defender intercepts nd heads out for a corner. Assistant flags for offside. In post match discussion he said he believed PIOP to have interfered as if he wasnt there defender would not have had to clear it. This is not a correct interpretation. Interference is clearly defined but as peter says not in the every day understanding of the word.
To truly understand the offside law and how it should be interpreted or applied you need to.go to the back of the book and look at the diagrams.
An example.l as with mine above as to why i was correct to over rule the assistant and covers your scenario too:
20181005_104800.jpg
 
Ref Luke 2203 said:
Wording is key...
  • making an obvious action which clearly impacts on the ability of an opponent to play the ball
JamesL said:
m with Peter here. I had this with an observer and assistant I over ruled. Ball played over the top. Attacker in offside position. Defender intercepts and heads out for a corner. Assistant flags for offside. In post match discussion he said he believed PIOP to have interfered as if he wasnt there defender would not have had to clear it. This is not a correct interpretation. Interference is clearly defined but as peter says not in the every day understanding of the word.
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I can see both sides of this, it is slightly contradicting.
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If the player doesn't play or make a play for the ball, all you can get him with is interfering with an opponent. But for that to apply he needs to be very close to the defender, effectively within touching distance, and you can't penalise an attacker because his presence in an offside position forced the defender into making a clearance. As someone who played a lot of games at centre half then I certainly don't like the law as it stands, but we can only enforce the law as it is written.
 
RustyRef said:
As someone who played a lot of games at centre half then I certainly don't like the law as it stands, but we can only enforce the law as it is written.
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This - I always played as either a full back or goalkeeper so my sympathies are decidedly with the defenders on this issue but as referees we have to apply the law as it is, not how we would like it to be.
 
Sheffields Finest said:
Its an Hass of an interpretation that bit, very unfair on a defender, he knows he's there!!!
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Well this is the obvious outcome of about 30 years of defenders using offside as a way to trap forwards, which it was never meant to be. I can remember flagging (as club AR in 80's) about twenty or more offsides every game. Cross, defenders step up, any player the slightest fraction ahead of the defensive line: flag up. So perhaps the pendulum has now swung strongly to the other side, with a player needing not only to be in offside position but to actually DO something as well. The difference is: one system leads to goals that defenders consider unfair, the other system just gioves dozens of indirect free kicks in a game. Ask yourself: which is the best for watching a game of football?
 
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