A&H

North Macedonia v England

The Referee Store
And another...

Tells us to go back for a throw in, further back than I actually thought, but let's them take a free kick about 20 yards further up.
He is sooo poor tonight.
 
ladbroke8745 said:
And another...

Tells us to go back for a throw in, further back than I actually thought, but let's them take a free kick about 20 yards further up.
He is sooo poor tonight.
Click to expand...
Yeah that wasn't ideal...Ball went out well in their half, throw in made to be taken 5 yards inside England half
 
First things first, England were poor again. But I can't remember seeing a refereeing performance that bad in a top level UEFA competition. He showed behaviours that at times made me think I was remotely coaching a level 7 referee. Taking aside the penalty, for which I've already made my views known ...
  • Constantly getting in the way of play. He jumped over the ball to take evasive action at least three times, then when Grealish had the ball on the edge of the area he inexplicably ran from out wide to run between Grealish and the goal. No experienced referee would ever intentionally run between a player with the ball and the goal, it really did defy belief.
  • Failed completely to crack down on foul play, especially persistent and SPA. There were 31 fouls in the game, only one caution for a foul and that was for the penalty, the other two were for dissent. It isn't a good look for any senior referee to have more cautions for dissent than any other offence, not sure I've ever seen it at international level. One North Macedonia player committed at least 4 fouls, three coming in a fairly short period in the first half
  • Totally random foul detection, let physical contact go one second and then the next second awarded a free kick for no contact.
VAR was a shambles. There is no possible way the initial lack of a penalty could be deemed a clearly and obvious error, yet the challenge by Maguire was far more of a penalty and allowed to go without an on-pitch review. Then you have a very, very obvious offside by Grealish that they spent 3 minutes checking.
 
RustyRef said:
First things first, England were poor again. But I can't remember seeing a refereeing performance that bad in a top level UEFA competition. He showed behaviours that at times made me think I was remotely coaching a level 7 referee. Taking aside the penalty, for which I've already made my views known ...
  • Constantly getting in the way of play. He jumped over the ball to take evasive action at least three times, then when Grealish had the ball on the edge of the area he inexplicably ran from out wide to run between Grealish and the goal. No experienced referee would ever intentionally run between a player with the ball and the goal, it really did defy belief.
  • Failed completely to crack down on foul play, especially persistent and SPA. There were 31 fouls in the game, only one caution for a foul and that was for the penalty, the other two were for dissent. It isn't a good look for any senior referee to have more cautions for dissent than any other offence, not sure I've ever seen it at international level. One North Macedonia player committed at least 4 fouls, three coming in a fairly short period in the first half
  • Totally random foul detection, let physical contact go one second and then the next second awarded a free kick for no contact.
VAR was a shambles. There is no possible way the initial lack of a penalty could be deemed a clearly and obvious error, yet the challenge by Maguire was far more of a penalty and allowed to go without an on-pitch review. Then you have a very, very obvious offside by Grealish that they spent 3 minutes checking.
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Summed up very well.

Shame we didn't get to see a replay of the supposed handball shout by virtually every England player in and around the box (after Kane came on).

That offside, the assistant had a mare there surely. That was obvious to a top official, right? It's not like he's running alongside to keep up.
 
I haven't seen the full 90 to comment on the officials overall. I do think the penalty incident is a foul, but not a VAR intervention. If it had been an England player slapped in the face I think there'd be less discontent over it.
 
This was one of the positioning things I mentioned, he ran from wider and deeper to run straight in front of Grealish at this point. It was absolutely baffling, and like I said I wouldn't expect a level 7 referee to do something that obviously wrong. If Grealish manages to shoot the referee has totally taken the defender out of the game and affected his ability to block the shot.

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ladbroke8745 said:
Summed up very well.

Shame we didn't get to see a replay of the supposed handball shout by virtually every England player in and around the box (after Kane came on).

That offside, the assistant had a mare there surely. That was obvious to a top official, right? It's not like he's running alongside to keep up.
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I said this too. That is not considered a remotely tricky offside call to make at football league level, let alone international.
 
RustyRef said:
First things first, England were poor again. But I can't remember seeing a refereeing performance that bad in a top level UEFA competition. He showed behaviours that at times made me think I was remotely coaching a level 7 referee. Taking aside the penalty, for which I've already made my views known ...
  • Constantly getting in the way of play. He jumped over the ball to take evasive action at least three times, then when Grealish had the ball on the edge of the area he inexplicably ran from out wide to run between Grealish and the goal. No experienced referee would ever intentionally run between a player with the ball and the goal, it really did defy belief.
  • Failed completely to crack down on foul play, especially persistent and SPA. There were 31 fouls in the game, only one caution for a foul and that was for the penalty, the other two were for dissent. It isn't a good look for any senior referee to have more cautions for dissent than any other offence, not sure I've ever seen it at international level. One North Macedonia player committed at least 4 fouls, three coming in a fairly short period in the first half
  • Totally random foul detection, let physical contact go one second and then the next second awarded a free kick for no contact.
VAR was a shambles. There is no possible way the initial lack of a penalty could be deemed a clearly and obvious error, yet the challenge by Maguire was far more of a penalty and allowed to go without an on-pitch review. Then you have a very, very obvious offside by Grealish that they spent 3 minutes checking.
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Consistency, positioning and offence recognition could easily have resulted in "development issues" in a L7 observation
 
Didn't watch the game, but did see the penalty. Never ever a penalty.

And certainly not a VAR intervention penalty.

This is another example that goes against peoples mindset of referees/VAR in England being far worse than elsewhere in the world
 
Runner-Ref said:
Didn't watch the game, but did see the penalty. Never ever a penalty.

And certainly not a VAR intervention penalty.

This is another example that goes against peoples mindset of referees/VAR in England being far worse than elsewhere in the world
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That narrative is just so lazy from fans and even some pundits who probably don't even watch European football when it's clear it's officiated differently and usually more strictly than they do in England. That is not to say they are wrong we are right but the penalty is a good example of that, whilst I stand by I do think it's a penalty, it's much less likely that would be given in the PL via an VAR intervention but I'll say it again, if the referee given it on field even at PL level, would VAR overturn it? I very much doubt it.

As another poster alluded to, if that was given for England there be much less outcry and no doubt the classic line of its soft but I can see why it's given would probably be said instead of comments like the referee wants to be the star of the show.
 
Paul_10 said:
That narrative is just so lazy from fans and even some pundits who probably don't even watch European football when it's clear it's officiated differently and usually more strictly than they do in England. That is not to say they are wrong we are right but the penalty is a good example of that, whilst I stand by I do think it's a penalty, it's much less likely that would be given in the PL via an VAR intervention but I'll say it again, if the referee given it on field even at PL level, would VAR overturn it? I very much doubt it.

As another poster alluded to, if that was given for England there be much less outcry and no doubt the classic line of its soft but I can see why it's given would probably be said instead of comments like the referee wants to be the star of the show.
Click to expand...

VAR has a global protocol though, it shouldn't be operated differently whether it is in England, the USA, France, our Outer Mongolia. It should be the same everywhere.

I think there has been a narrative that people are only complaining because it was against England. I don't buy that, especially not on this occasion, I would be calling this out whoever it was against. I could just about support it being called real time, but for VAR to rule the original decision as a clear and obvious error is an absolute farce, football pundits and commentators, and even referees, can't even agree whether it was the correct decision or not. It was nowhere near the bar needed for what is a clear and obvious error.
 
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