Junior/Youth Nice try Jim....

[Southerner In The North]

Context: local U11 cup final, red v blue home team the better(4-1 win)

5 minutes to go, ball in the air, red player is looking at chest it down, blue player in an attempt to win the ball, he karate kick red straight in chest
similar to thr DeJong kick on Alonso in Holland vs Spain. blow my whistle, was going to red card blue.
Call player to me, and as same time, manager ask for substitution, i nod and he calls the player that is going to be sent off.
i stop the player, manager comes onto pitch, and trying to sub him off following the incident.
I explain to manager his player is getting sent off, and his team is going to play in 8 for the remainder of game!
at this point Jim the manager(not his real name) asks me hows that fair?
i had to bite my tongue... Red card procedure followed, and also YC for Jim for entering the FOP uninvited.
luckily one of the parent running on field was a nurse (found out after game he was a teather nurse) and the kid being almost ko'ed was fine a few minuter later

Wouldn’t caution the coach personally as while technically right in law you did somewhat cause the confusion however you were right to show red and in what you told the coach.

 

[one]

Have you ever had someone at parks level come onto the pitch to administer first aid without being invited on? Did you caution them? I don't see the need to go straight for a card, personally.

at U11 I'd maybe be asking Jim to leave the pitch before cautioning him

I read your original post as "because this is U11, if you want to caution Jim and he is on the pitch, ask him to leave the pitch first and caution him once he is off the pitch". or "it's ok to caution Jim if he is off the pitch but not ok if he is on the pitch, especially at U11"

I still disagree with the way you meant it though. But that argument has already been put forward by @JamesL .

 

[Phonesurgeon]

It's the way I read the OP...


i stop the player, manager comes onto pitch, and trying to sub him off following the incident.
I explain to manager his player is getting sent off, and his team is going to play in 8 for the remainder of game!
at this point Jim the manager(not his real name) asks me hows that fair?
i had to bite my tongue... Red card procedure followed, and also YC for Jim for entering the FOP uninvited.

The fact the OP had to bite his tongue suggests the manager was being confrontational, as I say, maybe I put my own interpretation in my mind of what happened, natural human thing that happens in the brain, it just doesn't quite feel like a simple he came on and that was that situation.

Sure OP can add more context

Spot on interpretation,
"Jim" was being confrontational, trying to avoid the inevitable red card for his player!

 

[jofusref]

Have you ever had someone at parks level come onto the pitch to administer first aid without being invited on? Did you caution them? I don't see the need to go straight for a card, personally.

correct yellow card for enering FOP wasnt invited

 

[Jtpetherick1]

correct yellow card for enering FOP wasnt invited

That'll go down well on a Sunday morning...

 

[GraemeS]

correct yellow card for enering FOP wasnt invited

I think this is one of those things that can be managed with a warning or a reminder the first time, only needs a card if it's persistent as long as intentions are good.

Or even use a bit of subterfuge - if he comes on without being invited and it tuns out he wasn't needed, send the player to the sideline with him regardless. "Sorry, it's out of my hands, once he comes on the pitch you have to go to the side". Throw in a second or two of additional delay in inviting the player back on and he'll have his team telling him not to run on - problem solved and you haven't even had to actually get involved with him!

 

[socal lurker]

IMHO, with youth games it depends a lot on the level and training of the coaches. In leagues where the coaches are volunteers, the younger age coaches are typically dads (and some moms) who have agreed to help and often don't really understand the expectations.

In a 10U regular season game (our first level with GKs and standings), as long as the coach is being civil, I'm going to educate before sanctioning (same with momma bear coming onto the field if she thinks her kid is hurt). In a 16U game, they know the standards and will be treated as such. And there is a sliding scale in between. Where leagues have paid coaches, I think the expectations are different--if you are getting paid, you should understand your role and abide by it.

 

[RefIADad]

Based on everything I've seen here, the red for the player and the yellow for the coach is the right set of decisions.

In United States high school matches (which have a completely different rule book than LOTG), a caution for a player requires the player to be removed from the game (with a substitute - high school matches allow unlimited subs and re-entry) until at least the next substitution opportunity for that team.

In a game under IFAB/FIFA laws with unlimited subs, coaches will often ask if they can remove a player who has been cautioned. Since it's a stoppage of play, nearly every competition will have a rule saying this is fine - even if subs are more limited (such as only on a team's throw-in or goal kick, etc.).

I'm sure the coach was thinking the player was either going to get a talking to or a caution and wanted to sub the player out. As others have said, deal with the discipline first before taking care of anything else. The coach might have avoided coming onto the field if he knew his player was sent off. I realize that it's U11, but if a player kung fu kicks a player in the chest you have to send the player off. Now maybe you don't get theatrical about it, but it has to happen. I remember as a baseball umpire when I ejected a 12-year-old for throwing his helmet against the fence. The league had a very strict rule against throwing equipment. I didn't do the big "yer outta here!" ejection. I just walked to the coach near the dugout and calmly said, "(Number) is done playing today for throwing his equipment." The coach objected at first, but his other coach said the kid did it. They appreciated the discretion shown. I think we can do something similar as soccer officials in a situation like this. Perhaps we wait until the kid is near the bench before showing the red card to stay farther away from the parents, but I think you can show the card in a more understanding manner.