The Ref Stop

Junior/Youth Nice try Jim....

Phonesurgeon

Phonesurgeon

Cook, Cleaner and Bottle Washer
Level 7 Referee
Context: local U11 cup final, red v blue home team the better(4-1 win)

5 minutes to go, ball in the air, red player is looking at chest it down, blue player in an attempt to win the ball, he karate kick red straight in chest
similar to thr DeJong kick on Alonso in Holland vs Spain. blow my whistle, was going to red card blue.
Call player to me, and as same time, manager ask for substitution, i nod and he calls the player that is going to be sent off.
i stop the player, manager comes onto pitch, and trying to sub him off following the incident.
I explain to manager his player is getting sent off, and his team is going to play in 8 for the remainder of game!
at this point Jim the manager(not his real name) asks me hows that fair?
i had to bite my tongue... Red card procedure followed, and also YC for Jim for entering the FOP uninvited.
luckily one of the parent running on field was a nurse (found out after game he was a teather nurse) and the kid being almost ko'ed was fine a few minuter later
 
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The Ref Stop
This situation has been dealt with correctly, IMHO (For what its worth)
The coach cannot be allowed to substitute the offending player to allow his team to remain with desired number of players
Caution for the coach for entering FoP without Permission, Spot On
 
Exactly as Richard says, you're spot on as far as the law in concerned for both the dismissal and the following caution to the coach.

There can sometimes be some leeway in youth football for obviously clumsy acts, but a) I think that leeway only goes so far and I would argue the challenge as described is above that and b) if you're calling it a cup final, you should expect full LOTG pretty much regardless of age.

How is that fair? How would it be fair that the opponent got kicked in the chest and the offender is substituted unpunished?
 
certainly you have gotten to the right outcome here, my one suggestion would be not allowing the coach to start the sub procedure until you've finished with the onfield discipline first
 
Seems that you got the end result correct, just two things I'd say:

1. before I'm letting someone off the field (coach/manager/substitute/parent) get involved, I'm always doing my thing first - the game is stopped so they're not losing anything by not making the sub and it saves any such issues. Get your end sorted - discipline, explaining decisions etc - and then allow a change.

2. You were there, I wasn't and it may have been that a YC for Jim was what the game needed. However, at U11 I'd maybe be asking Jim to leave the pitch before cautioning him - but as I say it depends on the situation, how he was acting and so on.
 
one said:
Whats that got to do with him being cautioned before or after asking him to leave the pitch.
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I'm with you here mate but I think some folks like to save the young'uns the embarrassment of being cautioned in front of everyone.
Anyway, I think the poster was saying they would warn before carding as its u11, my point was jim is not u11 so even if you are going to give some leniency to the "little'uns" Jim is not in that category anyway as he is an adult.
 
Guys a little more context regarding Jim YC. After entering the pitch uninvited, he tried to avoid the RC for his player, subbing him, when I wasn't budging Jim tried the old chestnut of "this is first time I see a card at this level" I again explained the gravity of the foul, studs on chest and player was going to RC.
Jim continued arguing, at this stage, I asked for his name and told him a YC wax incoming.
So RC first, then YC.
Good development point for me: sort out cards or warning first, then allow subs(if any)
 
one said:
Do you mind explaining the rational? In relation to age or otherwise.
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Have you ever had someone at parks level come onto the pitch to administer first aid without being invited on? Did you caution them? I don't see the need to go straight for a card, personally.
 
Jtpetherick1 said:
How?
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Its a Warning:
The way I have read it is that it wasn't done respectfully so we are more than a Warning and I think that applies to post match really not that that bit is clear.
The other bit is leaves technical area but no offence committed and given he is seemingly (I may have embellished it in my head) arguing about whether a sub can take place for the red carded player doesn't fit into that category for me.

Caution: clearly/persistently not respecting the confines of the technical area.

Send off: deliberately leaving the technical area to show dissent.

From what I have read what happened (and maybe I put my own interpretation on it) is what happened was somewhere between caution and send off.
 
JamesL said:
Its a Warning:
The way I have read it is that it wasn't done respectfully so we are more than a Warning and I think that applies to post match really not that that bit is clear.
The other bit is leaves technical area but no offence committed and given he is seemingly (I may have embellished it in my head) arguing about whether a sub can take place for the red carded player doesn't fit into that category for me.

Caution: clearly/persistently not respecting the confines of the technical area.

Send off: deliberately leaving the technical area to show dissent.

From what I have read what happened (and maybe I put my own interpretation on it) is what happened was somewhere between caution and send off.
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Phonesurgeon said:
i stop the player, manager comes onto pitch, and trying to sub him off following the incident.
I explain to manager his player is getting sent off, and his team is going to play in 8 for the remainder of game!
at this point Jim the manager(not his real name) asks me hows that fair?
Click to expand...

None of this suggests that anything disrespectful happened to me and I cannot see match control (admittedly you shouldn't struggle to control an u11s game!) benefitting from an immediate card.
 
It's the way I read the OP...


i stop the player, manager comes onto pitch, and trying to sub him off following the incident.
I explain to manager his player is getting sent off, and his team is going to play in 8 for the remainder of game!
at this point Jim the manager(not his real name) asks me hows that fair?
i had to bite my tongue... Red card procedure followed, and also YC for Jim for entering the FOP uninvited.

The fact the OP had to bite his tongue suggests the manager was being confrontational, as I say, maybe I put my own interpretation in my mind of what happened, natural human thing that happens in the brain, it just doesn't quite feel like a simple he came on and that was that situation.

Sure OP can add more context
 
JamesL said:
It's the way I read the OP...


i stop the player, manager comes onto pitch, and trying to sub him off following the incident.
I explain to manager his player is getting sent off, and his team is going to play in 8 for the remainder of game!
at this point Jim the manager(not his real name) asks me hows that fair?
i had to bite my tongue... Red card procedure followed, and also YC for Jim for entering the FOP uninvited.

The fact the OP had to bite his tongue suggests the manager was being confrontational, as I say, maybe I put my own interpretation in my mind of what happened, natural human thing that happens in the brain, it just doesn't quite feel like a simple he came on and that was that situation.

Sure OP can add more context
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I have to bite my tongue when the missus says that tennis is better than football - she's not being disrespectful, just wrong ;).

I did add the caveat though that the OP was there and I wasn't.
 
Jtpetherick1 said:
I have to bite my tongue when the missus says that tennis is better than football - she's not being disrespectful, just wrong ;).

I did add the caveat though that the OP was there and I wasn't.
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Very wrong indeed.
Tbh in my mind the guy is on to dispute the red card and to try and force the ref I to allowing a change.
Again, like you, I wasn't their either this is just what I have imagined in my head and imagination runs away with me. Some. Times.
 
JamesL said:
Very wrong indeed.
Tbh in my mind the guy is on to dispute the red card and to try and force the ref I to allowing a change.
Again, like you, I wasn't their either this is just what I have imagined in my head and imagination runs away with me. Some. Times.
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But he's on before the card has been issued or explained, I think.
 
I'm guessing that as is often customary in matches involving 10 year olds and younger, the coach saw the challenge and thought "I'd better get him off before the ref has to send him off" but obviously wasn't aware of the OPs intentions after play had stopped. A bit of confusion perhaps, easily done.
I too read that "Jim" was being slightly confrontational and at the very least, has entered the field uninvited so basically a choice between yellow (which I think was probably the right call) or red for him.
 
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