The Ref Stop

New ref couple of question's...

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TopCat

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Level 7 Referee
Hi all. New ref, 4 weeks in and 11 games under the belt now. Learnt loads in that time hasn't been a disaster but certainly not the finished article by any stretch! Todays game raised some questions in my mind.

Had a mens Sunday friendly match today, gave a DFK just outside area, no complaints all round. Team given it to started arguing over who was to take it, not unusual, but this escalated to the point where 2 of them almost started scrapping. Rightly or wrongly I left them to it, players on same team had stepped in, kept them separate and tried to calm it down, manager came on and eventually subbed them both off. If they had physically attacked each other I would have given out two reds (or one) thought in hindsight could have shown yellows for unsporting but seemed resolved by managers actions? Arguing amongst a team not unusual but someone pointed out my duty to control game so I don't know (apparently deeper issues two players don't like each other etc)
Secondly there was a lad (cm) in my ear for whole game, he was bit of a 'Mr know it all' constantly gave his opinion on everything and was trying to tell me what to do to a large extent, gave fouls for and against him regardless but found the game hard work as a result, he was increasingly negative towards me in second half ie you have missed a lot ref and do you think you have earned your full fee ref etc. In changing room before game another ref was there i asked if he had had either team and he said he had had x team and he mentioned this lad was a bit gobby so clearly does it to any and every ref! In hindsight I think I was too nice with him, engaged in banter to an extent and explained my decisions when actually probably should have gone towards a warning and dissent much earlier. Finding the line between wanting to talk to players and explaining decisions and dealing with dissent seems to be my weak point at the moment. I think I also do too much talking while on the move ie I have probably only stopped the play to speak to players a handful of times so far? Any advice would be great. (Helps just unloading)
 
The Ref Stop
Last thing I would do is hand out cards in a friendly. The managers saved you a job by subbing them himself - but if it was to ever happen again in a friendly, ask the manager to sub them. I usually say in a friendly to the managers/captains yellow, I'll tell them or red (somewhee where I don't want them on the pitch, not for DOGSO etc) I will ask the manager to sub them so they can still play with the 10 men.

As for the gobby player - it happens. Sounds like you did the right thing by engaging in banter and explaining decisions, this will reduce the amount of any dissent. Maybe just a quick word with the captain to tell him to keep his mouth shut if he is getting overly abusive/annoying.
 
My highest ever card count was in a so called 'friendly', 3 reds and about 5 yellows I think... Try to keep them in your pocket but if they insist then never be afraid to get them out!!!
 
Topcat, I have no idea why people are telling you to keep your cards in your pocket. You lost control of this game in some respects because you didn't use them.

As soon as a confrontation starts, try to calm it down. Loud blasts on your whistle, separate the two and have a chat with one of them. As things calm down, bring the other one in and remind them of their conduct and the fact it's a friendly.

As for the player in your ear all game, polite remind him that you are the referee on this field, not him. If he would like to become a referee to show off his new found ability to officiate a game, he can speak to you after but in the meantime, you're in charge. If he continues, a quick card for dissent will help you out.

You are there to apply and enforce the laws of the game and to enjoy yourself as much as you can. The failure to deal with these people is what made this game seem tricky at times.

Use your cards when you need to - in competitive games and friendlies. I learnt that the hard way.
 
Thanks for the reply, having thought about it further I think the first incident with rowing team mates I genuinely wasn't sure what to do at time but advice given is spot on particularly one from DB thanks, would know what to do next time. Second one with guy in ear I think it's just a case of having that extra bit of confidence, I let him put seeds of doubt in my mind which undermined my confidence to deal with him as firmly as I needed to, kind of got into the trap of feeling like my decision making was bringing the dissent on my self when actually while my decision making wasn't perfect (possible high foot could have given, keeper may have saved a shot from my angle looked side netting etc nothing major) was certainly not even remotely close to being as bad as he claimed. Lesson learnt!
 
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I agree with the last few posts - it's always a bad idea to go into these matches thinking they will be "friendly", because I guarantee you that the players won't be treating them this way. Get into the habit of calling them "pre-season matches", think of them as pre-season matches and if the match calls for it, use cards as you normally would. Trying to keep my cards in my pocket because it's a friendly match has always ended in the match being harder to referee than it would have been if I had just treated it normally.

With regards to your two specific incidents - I would certainly be getting involved in the first, if only because prevention is always preferable to retroactive punishment. Get involved early and tell them to hurry it up and you'll then set the groundwork nicely for a delaying the restart caution if they still keep arguing. And as you correctly pointed out, them being on the same team wouldn't have saved them from reds if fists did start flying.

Players in your ear are always a tricky one. Personally I'm always happy to explain my decisions - and if a player politely asks what a decision is for and accepts the answer happily, I've got no problem with him doing it for the entire match. But it sounds like your player was doing far more than that. Telling me what decisions to make would definitely be a stern talking to, while questioning if I'd earnt my fee is fairly clear dissent and would have me reaching for a card unless the match had been incredibly well-tempered up to that point. It's a small step from there to questioning your neutrality and that's something your definitely don't want to have to punish.

Also remember that you can't actually stop play just to have a word - if you're stopping play to talk to a player, you have to be giving out a card. What you can do (and what I presume you actually meant) is stop the play from restarting in order to have a word. I'd get in the habit of doing this fairly often - it doesn't have to be a big deal if you just want to warn a player he's pushing his luck, but it helps ram the point home if everyone else is watching you say it to someone and waiting for your signal to restart.
 
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I agree with DB and GS... use of the whistle to stop teammates arguing excessively, and don't get into too many long conversations, especially with the same player. Banter: yes, commentary and explaining every decision: no. If you have to pause the game to warn a player for hassling you, make sure everyone understands the warning - make sure both teams know you have told the player he/she is on the threshold of a card (hand signals like cutting the grass and zip it can help).

The point I am trying to make is it's fair on the other players if one player is taking all your attention and only they understand your decisions, warning etc etc.
 
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I've had 7 pre-season friendlies. Not one of them has been friendly and would say in a competitive game there would've been a red card in more or less every single one of them.

Were any cards shown? No, apart from a game I was watching yesterday where the ref shown a yellow (was rightly a yellow don't get me wrong) but it caused complaints. The referees man-managed these games well - cards aren't needed in friendlies unless things really are getting bad.
 
I've had 7 pre-season friendlies. Not one of them has been friendly and would say in a competitive game there would've been a red card in more or less every single one of them.

Were any cards shown? No, apart from a game I was watching yesterday where the ref shown a yellow (was rightly a yellow don't get me wrong) but it caused complaints. The referees man-managed these games well - cards aren't needed in friendlies unless things really are getting bad.
They're pre-season matches. The purpose of which is to prepare the teams for the upcoming season. I'm not sure we really do the players any favours by training them that they can get away with stuff they won't be able to in the real season - and as a referee, I certainly don't think we do ourselves any favours with a more lenient attitude either.
 
I've had 7 pre-season friendlies. Not one of them has been friendly and would say in a competitive game there would've been a red card in more or less every single one of them.

Were any cards shown? No, apart from a game I was watching yesterday where the ref shown a yellow (was rightly a yellow don't get me wrong) but it caused complaints. The referees man-managed these games well - cards aren't needed in friendlies unless things really are getting bad.
What level is this at though? And what kind of offences?
If you are Level 3 are you taking about semi-pro, higher? ... and then more technical offences and/or orange card tackles (SFP/DOGSO)... whereas for level 5/6 if the offences are more VC/OFFINABUS perhaps tis could explain the different approach...? ...just guessing...
 
With rowing teammates , get the captain involved nice and early. Tell him it would be better for him to sort it out before you get involved. Allowing these things to fester can only be bad. Check out the famous Newcastle Utd clips for what can happen!
 
I've had 7 pre-season friendlies. Not one of them has been friendly and would say in a competitive game there would've been a red card in more or less every single one of them.

Were any cards shown? No, apart from a game I was watching yesterday where the ref shown a yellow (was rightly a yellow don't get me wrong) but it caused complaints. The referees man-managed these games well - cards aren't needed in friendlies unless things really are getting bad.
Then there should have been a red card in more or less everyone of them!
Do yourself and everyone else a favour; use your cards........
 
Can I just say - I don't agree with not having cards in a friendly. I am just going with what I have been advised to do in the past. However friendlies are there for the managers to try different things, if man-management works and no uses of cards, I don't see why cards should be used like a league game. It causes criticism which isn't what you need.
 
Can I just say - I don't agree with not having cards in a friendly. I am just going with what I have been advised to do in the past. However friendlies are there for the managers to try different things, if man-management works and no uses of cards, I don't see why cards should be used like a league game. It causes criticism which isn't what you need.
No, I cannot agree. Two things, the players need to get their 'game face' on, play nicely or suffer the consequences and you yourself are honing your skills in preparation for the coming season........use the cards!
 
There is nothing wrong with treating friendlies in a slightly less formal way, but, there is a line in the sand to cross though that you should set as a referee to suit your style of acceptance... If you allow them to get away with blue murder then then this can set a bad example for the season, all bad behaviour should be stamped on immediately....regardless of the game in front of you.
 
Pre season perfect time for cards.. no club marks. Just joking.
To be honest, whilst adopting a level of pre season leniency I am not afraid or unwilling to use cards, I am more likely to card than not lets just say.
As regards OP, occasionally, ok every game, there will be 1 player who wants to get close to and even cross the line. By all means engage with them, it can be useful and aid managing but dont be afraid to say hey fella, you're getying close to the line as he approaches it. Communication is important whether thats jovial converstaion or stern talking to. You just need to judge at what point you might need to change your approach with a player.
 
Interesting debate, it being a Friendly was definitely a factor I must admit. I think as James just said there's a stage before the cards which I didn't do with the gobby player, ie I wish I had turned round and said look I'm happy to talk to players, ver right to appeal but im not going to give you a running commentary, you are beginning to test my patience, your on the verge of dissent calm it down or something to that effect. If that didn't work then go to cards. Tbh I didn't feel great after the game as I did feel under- mined, that is just as much my fault as his which on this occasion I put down to inexperience
 
Funniest double card ever. First Player dissents walking back from conceding a perfectly good goal saying something like I'm the worst ref he's seen this season (or words to that effect) and so I yellow carded him. His protective mate comes over to ask what's going on and I told him to go away. So he asks carded player what he'd said,, so first player repeated it to him out loud! Hearing this, the second player said 'well, he f@&£ing is' So I carded him too LOFL.....What a c@ck!
 
Yeah card the player gobbing off. Geez they annoy me. Handed out 2 in the last 2 weeks for 2 complete know-it-alls. One in an under 14's.

With the 14's I gave them a warning before the game about dissent, then during the game and then the mouthiest lad had the hide (not 2 minutes after the in-game warning) to give me a lesson in the obstruction rule. A yellow calmed him down and I got an apology at half time and after the game so all good.

Div 1 ladies match I warned the whingiest girl during the game for constant chat and then 15 or so minutes later they were attacking and a pass went by a defender and clipped her hand, shouts for handball but the ball went to one of their players in an excellent position. One touch, goal. (Outside the box). Whilst I was writing up the goalscorer and the players were going back for the restart 'mouthy' said to a team mate 'he probably won't give it because of me' or some rubbish like that. Out came the yellow.

Back at the halfway line someone said fair enough and I said 'instead of saying good advantage ref, thanks' I'm copping bloody stick.

They do make you laugh sometimes.
 
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