Mong?

[one]

@QuaverRef ,

Opinion and what one thinks should happen (theory) is one thing and what one actually does (practice) is another.

having said that I would like to ask you what you would do in this scenario I posted earlier (with the added context of you have told us you are a black referee). I am not asking for justification or opinion, only what you would actually do.

A team with a lot of black players. One of them scores with screamer from 35 yard out into the top corner. A team mate who is also black, while embracing him in celebration says "from now on that's how you shoot ni***". You only hear this because you are standing less than 5 meters away otherwise you would not have heard it. What do you do?

 

[QuaverRef]

@QuaverRef ,

Opinion and what one thinks should happen (theory) is one thing and what one actually does (practice) is another.

having said that I would like to ask you what you would do in this scenario I posted earlier (with the added context of you have told us you are a black referee). I am not asking for justification or opinion, only what you would actually do.

A team with a lot of black players. One of them scores with screamer from 35 yard out into the top corner. A team mate who is also black, while embracing him in celebration says "from now on that's how you shoot ni***". You only hear this because you are standing less than 5 meters away otherwise you would not have heard it. What do you do?

I'd get rid of them. Don't get me wrong, I completely understand that the word is used between black people and I can see where some referees on this forum are coming from but I'm at the opinion that it's completely unacceptable and I don't think there should be particular words (especially on a football pitch with plenty of people with all sorts of backgrounds and lives) that are acceptable for one person and not another.

I know you didn't ask for justification or opinion but I had to really

 

[QuaverRef]

This has gone a fair bit off topic now .... The point I'm really trying to make is that we, as representatives of the FA and an authoritative figure, should be working together to get this sort of language out of the game regardless of who it's said to and the tone it's said in. There's no place for it, and it's a little bit worrying that a select few referees seem to be arguing that if they aren't offended, then it's not offensive.

 

[one]

I'd get rid of them. Don't get me wrong, I completely understand that the word is used between black people and I can see where some referees on this forum are coming from but I'm at the opinion that it's completely unacceptable and I don't think there should be particular words (especially on a football pitch with plenty of people with all sorts of backgrounds and lives) that are acceptable for one person and not another.

I know you didn't ask for justification or opinion but I had to really

Ok,your game, your decision. I'd see that as a huge injustice driven by opinion that can hardly (arguably) be justified by literal wording of the law let alone by the spirit of it. No offence intended not that intent matters to you (pun intended).

I didn't read past the first sentence... not really i did

 

[QuaverRef]

Ok,your game, your decision. I'd see that as a huge injustice driven by opinion that can hardly be justified by literal wording of the law let alone by the spirit of it. No offence intended an that intent matters to you (pun intended).

I didn't read past the first sentence... not really i did

As I said, I completely understand (especially with that particular word) why some referees would turn a blind eye. However, to get this out of the game I feel everyone should be pulling in the same direction.

 

[Justylove]

Clearly you didn’t go to the schools that I did then......certainly wasn’t offensive 30 yrs ago, or even 20.

Neither looking for a reaction or double standards. Just being honest, well aware that the snowflakes and haters will surface to duly castigate me.
As I said, in certain circumstances I could be pushed into the dismissal but in the circumstances today, it simply didn’t trigger my normally sensitive OFFINABUS reaction.


The player in question, u18s, approached me as we walked back to the changing rooms and apologised for his little outburst. We had a chat on the way and clearly this is a word that he uses a lot.....he said that last week the ref just told him to shut up. I explained that on a different day, with a different ref he could easily see red for that comment, which he accepted but said that he was just as likely to get a talking to.
So clearly the word isn’t as clear cut as some would have you believe......

Isn’t the criteria for red Offensive, Insulting or Abusive?

You might not find it offensive, however it’s certainly INSULTING and most likely Abusive as well.

LWR if you've not dismissed for it.

 

[Justylove]

Clearly you didn’t go to the schools that I did then......certainly wasn’t offensive 30 yrs ago, or even 20.

Neither looking for a reaction or double standards. Just being honest, well aware that the snowflakes and haters will surface to duly castigate me.
As I said, in certain circumstances I could be pushed into the dismissal but in the circumstances today, it simply didn’t trigger my normally sensitive OFFINABUS reaction.


The player in question, u18s, approached me as we walked back to the changing rooms and apologised for his little outburst. We had a chat on the way and clearly this is a word that he uses a lot.....he said that last week the ref just told him to shut up. I explained that on a different day, with a different ref he could easily see red for that comment, which he accepted but said that he was just as likely to get a talking to.
So clearly the word isn’t as clear cut as some would have you believe......

Isn’t the criteria for red Offensive, Insulting or Abusive?

You might not find it offensive, however it’s certainly INSULTING and most likely Abusive as well.

LWR if you've not dismissed for it.

 

[one]

As I said, I completely understand (especially with that particular word) why some referees would turn a blind eye. However, to get this out of the game I feel everyone should be pulling in the same direction.

And as I said/implied, I think you are acting on your general life opinion on the use of the N word rather than your refereeing opinion on the use of it in that game. I'd even challenge your general opinion. This was a hot topic after Kendrick Lamar asked a white girl to sing one of his songs on stage. That is, black people CAN use the N word freely. I do agree though we are going off topic.

 

[QuaverRef]

Isn’t the criteria for red Offensive, Insulting or Abusive?

You might not find it offensive, however it’s certainly INSULTING and most likely Abusive as well.

LWR if you've not dismissed for it.

I think 'Mong' is a poor example in this conversation as there's clearly mixed opinion on what it means. If you're not actually aware of it's meaning, you can't guess and send them off. However, now being made aware of the 'newer' meaning, you'd like to think it would have different consequences

 

[QuaverRef]

And as I said/implied, I think you are acting on your general life opinion on the use of the N word rather than your refereeing opinion on the use of it in that game. I'd even challenge your general opinion. This was a hot topic after Kendrick Lamar asked a white girl to sing one of his songs on stage. That is, black people CAN use the N word freely. I do agree though we are going off topic.

Just out of curiosity, if we used your scenario of "from now on that's how you shoot ni***"", if it's a white player who says it to a black player but he's absolutely fine with it, just laugh it off as it's a normal comment between the two, what action would you take? Genuinely interest because in the two examples the wording is the same, the reaction is the same, the people watching are the same, but the skin colour of one player has changed.

 

[Justylove]

I think 'Mong' is a poor example in this conversation as there's clearly mixed opinion on what it means. If you're not actually aware of it's meaning, you can't guess and send them off. However, now being made aware of the 'newer' meaning, you'd like to think it would have different consequences

It's a term that has gone out of use over the years. Being in my 40's was a term used when I was at school and was very insulting.
On my pitch, it's a red card all day.
Any ref that knows what it means in that context should send off.
If you are a referee and doesn't know what it means, then I agree you can't send off unless it's obviously stated in an offensive way.

I'd put it as being akin to a player calling you a "f***ing c**t" in a foreign language, if you don't know what is being said it's a difficult one.

I did once send a player off for exactly that, he didn't realise that I knew exactly what he was saying, not because I'm fluent in the language, but because I had a friend who taught me all of the naughty words in his language when I was a teenager and I remembered them all!

 

[one]

Just out of curiosity, if we used your scenario of "from now on that's how you shoot ni***"", if it's a white player who says it to a black player but he's absolutely fine with it, just laugh it off as it's a normal comment between the two, what action would you take? Genuinely interest because in the two examples the wording is the same, the reaction is the same, the people watching are the same, but the skin colour of one player has changed.

I think I have converted you to a #contextmatters

Very interesting. I genuinely am not sure. I guess the first thing i would make sure of is that assessing if everyone who heard is fine with it. If it was said as soft as in my scenario it should be only a few people. If I am in no doubt there was no offence intended and none was taken then a quiet word on the run is what would probably do. If it was said loud within reach of spectators' hearing, he is off.

 

[QuaverRef]

I think I have converted you to a #contextmatters

Very interesting. I genuinely am not sure. I guess the first thing i would make sure of is that assessing if everyone who heard is fine with it. If it was said as soft as in my scenario it should be only a few people. If I am in no doubt there was no offence intended and none was taken then a quiet word on the run is what would probably do. If it was said loud within reach of spectators' hearing, he is off.

Haha, with that word there's no context for me but again, I do understand why that particular word sparks an interesting debate I think at the time, there's an argument for both decisions but I'd be interested to see the FA's stance on it if a referee was or wasn't to send a black player off for saying it to another, not offended black player.

 

[Sheffields Finest]

Good debate this

 

[Cheshire Ref]

@QuaverRef ,

Opinion and what one thinks should happen (theory) is one thing and what one actually does (practice) is another.

having said that I would like to ask you what you would do in this scenario I posted earlier (with the added context of you have told us you are a black referee). I am not asking for justification or opinion, only what you would actually do.

A team with a lot of black players. One of them scores with screamer from 35 yard out into the top corner. A team mate who is also black, while embracing him in celebration says "from now on that's how you shoot ni***". You only hear this because you are standing less than 5 meters away otherwise you would not have heard it. What do you do?

Take your above scenario. The FA receive various reports from players and/or supporters who were offended by the racist language they heard on the pitch during your game. They contact you, the referee. Whats your response??

 

[Sheffields Finest]

Take your above scenario. The FA receive various reports from players and/or supporters who were offended by the racist language they heard on the pitch during your game. They contact you, the referee. Whats your response??

Same as the hundreds of swear words that routinely are said in most games!

 

[QuaverRef]

Same as the hundreds of swear words that routinely are said in most games!

I'm going to reiterate my concerns here that racist language is being compared to the use of swear words

 

[Sheffields Finest]

I'm going to reiterate my concerns here that racist language is being compared to the use of swear words

The thread isn’t / wasn’t about race!

 

[QuaverRef]

The thread isn’t / wasn’t about race!

You quoted a sentence specifically about race and compared it to swearing ....

 

[Cheshire Ref]

Same as the hundreds of swear words that routinely are said in most games!

So that would be your response would it?

There is such a HUGE difference between routine swear words and racist language and anyone that cannot see the difference worries me a little to be honest.