Mex v Ecu

[Bleedaggie]

Two big calls in the box during stoppage time of Mexico v. Ecuador. A potential handball offense wasn’t called, no VAR. Two minutes later a PK was called for a tackle. VAR wiped it away quickly. Why no VAR for the handball? It looked obvious both replays we were given at home. At least worth having a second look at in stoppage time of a 0-0 game where the loser goes home, no?

 

[cwyeary]

Defender kicks the ball up into their own arm. Why would it be a PK?

 

[Bleedaggie]

Law doesn’t specify from where the ball has to come, correct? His arm was extended from his body when the ball made contact with it. That’s an offense.

It is an offence if a player:

• touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised

 

[Russell Jones]

Law doesn’t specify from where the ball has to come, correct? His arm was extended from his body when the ball made contact with it. That’s an offense.

It is an offence if a player:

• touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised

Agree it could be spelled out more clearly in law. However general guidance is clear that a deliberate play of the ball into your own arm does not lead to a handball offence, no matter the position of the hand / arm

 

[one]

At least worth having a second look at in stoppage time of a 0-0 game where the loser goes home, no?

No.
That is not how VAR works. VAR doesn't ask himself if it is worth the referee having a second lok at. The VAR asks himself did the referee clearly and obviously make an error? If the answer is yes then he asks the referee to review it. And it has nothing to do with the score, the minute of the game or what's at stake.

I've only seen the overturned penalty and it was clearly not a pen. Set aside the dive by the attacker, the defender clearly played the ball and it wasn't careless.

 

[JamesL]

Law doesn’t specify from where the ball has to come, correct? His arm was extended from his body when the ball made contact with it. That’s an offense.

It is an offence if a player:

• touches the ball with their hand/arm when it has made their body unnaturally bigger. A player is considered to have made their body unnaturally bigger when the position of their hand/arm is not a consequence of, or justifiable by, the player’s body movement for that specific situation. By having their hand/arm in such a position, the player takes a risk of their hand/arm being hit by the ball and being penalised

This is from IFAB sister site, ifab rules.

 

[one]

View attachment 7384

This is from IFAB sister site, ifab rules.

If IFAB is bad at wording, IFAB's sister is even worse.

I liked that @Russell Jones used "general guidance" in response to the same topic. Saying "it's not handball" categorically just isn't right. Imagine a player knowing he is poor at first touch in a long pass, and deliberately rapping their arms around the area of the first touch to make sure the ball doesn't bounce away. If the ball touches the hand, clear handball, expected by everyone, except IFAB's sister.

 

[JamesL]

If IFAB is bad at wording, IFAB's sister is even worse.

I liked that @Russell Jones used "general guidance" in response to the same topic. Saying "it's not handball" categorically just isn't right. Imagine a player knowing he is poor at first touch in a long pass, and deliberately rapping their arms around the area of the first touch to make sure the ball doesn't bounce away. If the ball touches the hand, clear handball, expected by everyone, except IFAB's sister.

Yep. But that's where we fall into the laws where we apply them within the spirit and framework.

Laws can't cover ever scenario etc. etc.

 

[one]

Yep. But that's where we fall into the laws where we apply them within the spirit and framework.

Laws can't cover ever scenario etc. etc.

If only everyone knew when to apply the spirit and when to take it literally. Don't forget most of those became part of law 12 (including arm above shoulder) a few years back but only lasted a couple of seasons because everyone was applying them word for word.

 

[JamesL]

If only everyone knew when to apply the spirit and when to take it literally. Don't forget most of those became part of law 12 (including arm above shoulder) a few years back but only lasted a couple of seasons because everyone was applying them word for word.

Yes I do recall... And to be fair that was a damn sight better than what we have now.

 

[cwyeary]

Here's the video of the handball which CONMEBOL supported as no handball. There was another one around 57' that wasn't given that really should have been IMO.

 

[Big Cat]

Complete accident. Hand in a natural position. Lord knows what the guidance say's in that part of the world
Am surprised it wasn't given. They love Handball out there

 

[cwyeary]

Complete accident. Hand in a natural position. Lord knows what the guidance say's in that part of the world
Am surprised it wasn't given. They love Handball out there

Seems a strange thing to bring up with the VAR team use all of the terms that a UEFA ref would to come to the conclusion of no handball.

 

[ladbroke8745]

He virtually grabs hold of it doesn't he?

If we're using a snicker metre thing to determine if it actually touched the hand (and if having to use this surely means it's not even enough to say it's made a real impact (like the penalty against Denmark)).. then catching the ball is a definite handball.