Mark Clattenburg - Arsenal vs Hull

[Peter Grove]

I'm OK with the law as it stands but if you did want to prevent goals being scored by a forward's hand, I guess you could just include the part of the law that up till 1974, said that a goal could not be scored if the ball was propelled by the hand or arm of an attacking player (except for a goalkeeper inside his own penalty area). From 1974 on (and up until 1997) that was changed to say "intentionally propelled" so I'm guessing it meant that prior to 1974 it didn't matter if it was intentional or not. I wasn't refereeing back then so I don't know if that's how it was applied but it certainly sounds that way, otherwise why did they feel the need to add the word "intentionally"?

 

[bloovee]

Maybe my long-term memory isn't so bad! My suggestion, "A goal may not be scored if the ball is directed into goal by an attacker's hand or arm" (with "propelled" for "directed"), proves the power of the subconscious.

 

[es1]

Because the only purpose of this is to stop goals being scored with accidental hand use, because that strikes most people as inherently unfair. There's no need to extrapolate it further.

Ice hockey uses a similar (but different) principal I believe - it's perfectly legal for the puck to be controlled with a skate, but scoring a goal with one is considered unfair. I'm proposing that it's perfectly legal for the ball to accidentally hit the arm (as it currently is), but that it's unfair if that generates an advantage that leads to a goal. And by only giving an IFK and no card, we're not blaming the attacker - just saying that it's not fair from him to profit from it.

you're not quite right here. i love ice hockey, fabulous sport...

as you say, the use of the skate is fine in open play, to control and or kick the puck. If a goal is scored with any part of the skate then the referee will decide, much like handball, if the use of the skate was a deliberate act (and will therefore not be allowed) or simply the result of a fortunate ricochet (and will be allowed)

 

[Mooseybaby]

Just going to throw this one out there at this risk of being shot down... Before the wonderous re-wording of the LOTG, wasn't there something in the offside laws about a player's arm/hand not being taken into consideration for offside because a goal can't be legally scored with the hand/arm?

Either way, pretty sure had Clattenburg disallowed the goal for handball, it would have got a lot less attention and debate than the decision to allow it to stand has.

Walcott's hissy fit of throwing the ball in direction of the assistant/corner flag and squaring up to an opponent seems to have escaped most people's attention.

 

[pankaye]

Just going to throw this one out there at this risk of being shot down... Before the wonderous re-wording of the LOTG, wasn't there something in the offside laws about a player's arm/hand not being taken into consideration for offside because a goal can't be legally scored with the hand/arm?

Either way, pretty sure had Clattenburg disallowed the goal for handball, it would have got a lot less attention and debate than the decision to allow it to stand has.

Walcott's hissy fit of throwing the ball in direction of the assistant/corner flag and squaring up to an opponent seems to have escaped most people's attention.

i think it was the ball could not be played with the arm

 

[Peter Grove]

Just going to throw this one out there at this risk of being shot down... Before the wonderous re-wording of the LOTG, wasn't there something in the offside laws about a player's arm/hand not being taken into consideration for offside because a goal can't be legally scored with the hand/arm?

No, there was never any such explanation. It seemed that various people just assumed that was the rationale for it. It didn't actually make sense given that with the law on deliberate handling as it is, a goal can be legally scored with the hand.

The official explanation is (and always has been, as far as I am aware) as given in the current FAQ to Law 11:

The hands or arms are not included when judging offside position [...] This view is supported by and helps assistant referees throughout the world as it is often difficult to identify the exact position of the hands and arms.