A&H

Manufacturing the Outcome of a Dropped Ball

J

Jacob M

New Member
Level 7 Referee
Hypothetical situation: Team A has possession, a Team B player goes down off the ball, the ref stops play so he can receive treatment. Normally, I would restart by requesting a Team B player pass the ball back to Team A. In the updated Law 8, it states that the referee may not manufacture the outcome of a dropped ball.

Whilst my restart seems to me like a sensible and fair way to restart, under the new laws would this count as manufacturing the outcome? If so, how would you restart in this sort of situation?
 
The Referee Store
Call a drop ball and hope Team B are sporting enough to pass it back. If they don't unfortunately there is nothing you can do.
 
Which is the same as the reality of things now.

You can't tell them what to do, you can't make it so that only one team gets to compete for the dropped ball/etc.
 
I'd still probably ask the team that were not in possession what they intended to do.....that way I'm prepared for any eventuality.
 
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If you really feel a team has been unfairly done by in such a situation, there are a lot of little things (little infringements etc) that can result in possession being given back to the hard done by team.

Not that i am suggesting anything which is not in the LOTG mind... But Spirit of the game and all that ;)

Wait for it....
 
SM said:
If you really feel a team has been unfairly done by in such a situation, there are a lot of little things (little infringements etc) that can result in possession being given back to the hard done by team.

Not that i am suggesting anything which is not in the LOTG mind... But Spirit of the game and all that ;)

Wait for it....
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Aye, donning tin hat, incoming!...........
 
Just asking a question in a manner which may imply that one team may choose to do the sporting thing without in any way insisting that they do so.......
 
Meh, as usual the LOTG have been written with such poor clarity as to be utterly meaningless. What does 'manufacture' mean?
If I'm standing there twiddling my thumbs waiting for the other team to realise that a DB is happening and send a player over, aren't I manufacturing a competitive drop ball? Given the lack of clarity I can't see any change. Can't tell the players what to do but you can ask/suggest. Or just drop the ball before the opposing team has the opportunity to get involved.
 
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CapnBloodbeard said:
Meh, as usual the LOTG have been written with such poor clarity as to be utterly meaningless. What does 'manufacture' mean?
If I'm standing there twiddling my thumbs waiting for the other team to realise that a DB is happening and send a player over, aren't I manufacturing a competitive drop ball? Given the lack of clarity I can't see any change. Can't tell the players what to do but you can ask/suggest. Or just drop the ball before the opposing team has the opportunity to get involved.
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Exactly. All is required is for the ball to be dropped at a certain location when I thinks play can now continue. While I can’t manufacture an outcome I am not obliged to wait for player from both/either teams to be there for the dropped ball.


If players from both teams are aware and insist on contesting it, then there is nothing I can do, except for expecting a sh!tfight for the next five minutes. And that was always the case with the new or the old law.
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
Meh, as usual the LOTG have been written with such poor clarity as to be utterly meaningless. What does 'manufacture' mean.
Click to expand...
Coming from you, this bit actually surprises me.

Manufacture means what we think it means... giving direction, forcing the outcome, such as:

"Blue, I'm dropping the ball for red, you can't be involved, go away."

In short, it's merely putting into words what we've all known and adhered to for years anyhow.
 
I don't think this actually changes anything, it just effectively stops errant referees from telling players from one team they cannot take part in a dropped ball. For example, if I stop play when the keeper has the ball in his hands I will restart by just dropping the ball at his feet, but I always tell the opponents I am doing it - "he had the ball lads so I'm going to drop it for him". If they refused, and that has never happened in many years of refereeing, we'd have to have it contested.
 
Not sure it was ever "errant" Rusty, just common sense and sporting whether the team's liked it or not. Still I take your point.
 
I've never told or asked a team to pass the ball back to an oppositions keeper.

They've asked if I want them too, and I just say its up to them, but I do warn them no to try and be sneaky by saying they're going to pass it back and then not
 
AlexF said:
Coming from you, this bit actually surprises me.

Manufacture means what we think it means... giving direction, forcing the outcome, such as:

"Blue, I'm dropping the ball for red, you can't be involved, go away."

In short, it's merely putting into words what we've all known and adhered to for years anyhow.
Click to expand...

which bit surprises?
If it's to stop referees instructing players, then why not say that? Manufacture just seems ambiguous to me. I mean, it could mean doing the quick drop before the other team has the chance to contest....or it could not. Personally that's the most I've ever done.
 
CapnBloodbeard said:
which bit surprises?
If it's to stop referees instructing players, then why not say that? Manufacture just seems ambiguous to me. I mean, it could mean doing the quick drop before the other team has the chance to contest....or it could not. Personally that's the most I've ever done.
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I think that's what I would consider "manufacturing" and what they're obviously trying to eliminate. I've also rolled the ball a meter or two back to a keeper to pick up before - again, I'm now obliged to drop the ball at the correct spot and make him come and get it. I don't believe that the old laws actually allowed instructions to be given at a drop ball anyway, so nothing's changed there.
 
As usual, I put forward my law change, which avoids this. Ref stops play, and the ball is given to the GK of the team in possession at the time (ITOOTR) which nine times out of ten is where the ball ends up in these situations. Restart - from the whistle, keeper has 6 (real) seconds to release the ball.
 
Managing the players and the game and behaving in a way that helps your match control is really important. A referee that manufactures may be seen as over the top and domineering. A referee that assists players in coming to the right decision will seem reasonable and yet still assertive. if you leave it entirely in the hands of players - especially late teens to adult - they may take this as weakness. I agree with those that have said they ask whether the ball is being returned to the team who was in possession when I stopped the game. It has become the fashionable way to deal with the dropped ball in any case. Don't forget that players cannot score directly from a dropped ball in any case so it may sometimes be worth telling them that.
 
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