RefSix

Managers and Assistant offinabus

Zimmyman

Well-Known Member
#1
Ok Sunday I have an under15 match my first one after doing many under14 games I knew it would be faster ! It was an extremely hot day and for some reason the biggest pitch I’d ever refereed on massive !!! And being an older ref in my sixties knew it was not going to be that easy !! game starts all is good 15 in first tackle a slight clip I wave it away ! Then I hear home team manager shout to the top of his voice that’s a F;;;;;king foul ref the whole ground heard it !!
I went over and said you need to calm it down and warned him
He was most indignant that he did not swear at me !! Game carries on I give a water break it’s so hot
Halftime come I blow whistle all timers correct on my wrist I’m in centre spot manager and assistant come over and say you’ve blown up to early we all have 38 mins on our watch I reminded them that I was the time keeper
Comes in the assistant with I know you want to get away thats why you’ve blown up early I then cautioned him for dissent as I felt this was calling me a cheat??
Game continues no major problems but still the home bench grumbling ! Funny the away bench were ok !!
15 to go I miss a bad tackle and give a throw in manager come on and says surely you are going to give a foul for that I replied no he then walked away saying F;;;;k you I right away called him over and gave him a red card
He said you must be joking and I said no you swore I just got his name but also asked him where his ID badge was he said I’m not showing to you you should have asked at the start of the game he then took it from his pocket and threw it at my feet ! He went off into the stand game carried on !! Handshakes at the end from the boys who were exemplary !
I’m walking off on comes manager to say he did not swear at me and I’m the worst ref ever
Etc but then hit me with you are not fit enough for under 15 football you are unfit !!! Ok I’m an older ref not as fit as a 30 year old that’s obvious it was a hot day it was a fast game it was a big pitch I went away with his comments in my ears which even if correct were insulting ! I did find the game tough but walking out of the ground I had good comments of good game ref I also found out when he went to the stand he was still swearing and at to be asked by parents with kids to stop it
I feel let down even if I wasn’t as up with play as a younger ref I feel I’ve let myself down by his comments my report has gone in to the FA my league have not responded to
My email so where do us refs stand ??? It’s seems these people can do what they want on the pretext that they are going to report you also sorry it’s long but had to tell someone
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#3
Ok Sunday I have an under15 match my first one after doing many under14 games I knew it would be faster ! It was an extremely hot day and for some reason the biggest pitch I’d ever refereed on massive !!! And being an older ref in my sixties knew it was not going to be that easy !! game starts all is good 15 in first tackle a slight clip I wave it away ! Then I hear home team manager shout to the top of his voice that’s a F;;;;;king foul ref the whole ground heard it !!
I went over and said you need to calm it down and warned him
He was most indignant that he did not swear at me !! Game carries on I give a water break it’s so hot
Halftime come I blow whistle all timers correct on my wrist I’m in centre spot manager and assistant come over and say you’ve blown up to early we all have 38 mins on our watch I reminded them that I was the time keeper
Comes in the assistant with I know you want to get away thats why you’ve blown up early I then cautioned him for dissent as I felt this was calling me a cheat??
Game continues no major problems but still the home bench grumbling ! Funny the away bench were ok !!
15 to go I miss a bad tackle and give a throw in manager come on and says surely you are going to give a foul for that I replied no he then walked away saying F;;;;k you I right away called him over and gave him a red card
He said you must be joking and I said no you swore I just got his name but also asked him where his ID badge was he said I’m not showing to you you should have asked at the start of the game he then took it from his pocket and threw it at my feet ! He went off into the stand game carried on !! Handshakes at the end from the boys who were exemplary !
I’m walking off on comes manager to say he did not swear at me and I’m the worst ref ever
Etc but then hit me with you are not fit enough for under 15 football you are unfit !!! Ok I’m an older ref not as fit as a 30 year old that’s obvious it was a hot day it was a fast game it was a big pitch I went away with his comments in my ears which even if correct were insulting ! I did find the game tough but walking out of the ground I had good comments of good game ref I also found out when he went to the stand he was still swearing and at to be asked by parents with kids to stop it
I feel let down even if I wasn’t as up with play as a younger ref I feel I’ve let myself down by his comments my report has gone in to the FA my league have not responded to
My email so where do us refs stand ??? It’s seems these people can do what they want on the pretext that they are going to report you also sorry it’s long but had to tell someone
I wonder if you could improve your refereeing by showing more empathy to these dissenters. I don't condone the behaviour you've described whatsoever, but we're tasked with doing everything possible to avoid such an outcome. In response to the first spat, do you think it could've helped, firstly to hear (and accept) the opinion of the manager, before indicating that his outburst was not acceptable (maybe then issuing a caution)?. Even if we don't agree with people, it's a well known communication skill to never disagree with someone outright (although this is a work in progress for me ;)). Always using the person's first name is a good idea
There is a huge shortage of referees in youth football AFAIK. Having a neutral official must always be better than a parent stepping in. I'm very much inclined to think that the manager beat you with the most obvious stick at his disposal; your age
If it wasn't your age, he'd find something else... That's football and it's the same for all of us
It was hot at the weekend, so I sympathise with your exertions. There are lots of people in their 60's (and 70's occasionally) who could referee this age group effectively. Only you will know if you're one of them
 

Viking

Q-1994, Re-qualified 2019 Worcestershire UK
#4
Zimmyman – First of all sorry to hear of your situation. I know what you mean with the faster game! I’m 52 and requalified last year having refereed many of my son’s u9, u10 and u11 games over the past 3 years. I mentioned to the FA that I was struggling with my knee (following the crab motion at an AR workshop) and was horrified to see they’d appointed me to an u16 game! At least they tried to play football rather than hoofball, so less twisting and running for me.

Re swearing coaches, I had an incident in which a coach called me (as a CAR) an effing cheat and shouted and screamed at the 14 yo ref all game. The ref didn’t know how to deal with the sweary and abusive coach and the home coach actually took his players off the pitch. I was cited in a separate report through the home club and I was meticulous in stating every single incident that went on that game that frankly horrified me. I was pleased to see that the sweary coach’s club was fined and warned, and that the coach appears to have stopped coaching, officially at least. The report against me was not upheld.

I’d therefore encourage you to be very specific and certain about the incidents that happened at the game, as they provide a bigger picture of why this coach should not be involved with youth football and the committee/FA is likely to come down harder on both him and the club. These coaches (and abusive parents) need to be removed from the game altogether.

Re the interaction with the coach, it sounds as if he was in your face from the off and so even after a calming word, it seemed unlikely he would change his stance. I now tend to be very laid back about questions on any of my decisions and probably would have said just that my watches say 40 mins but they might be running fast, and leave it at that. I saw a younger ref do a good shrug of his shoulders last Saturday when a CAR continued to question why an offside hadn’t been given and the ref had just said to him that he’d explained the law and that he couldn’t do any more than that.

As mentioned in recent other threads, dissent is whatever your line in the sand is. The coaches should have taken note of your yellow card more than they did.

Every ref misses tackles and I tend to say that, sorry I might have missed something there, and that has always diffused a potential difficult situation. For a start, the FA respect guidelines state the coach should not question the ref’s decisions so he was in the wrong to start with. I think I’d expand slightly on the reason I wasn’t giving a foul but you have every right to just say no. He doesn’t have a right to say what he did, but by the sounds of it he wanted to be sent off.

I don’t understand your last paragraph. Most coaches never send in reports, it’s just a way to try and get a little victory in their mind. I hope you wrote everything that happened in your report, including good handshakes with players and the fact that parents were telling the coach to stop it, as well as his unfit comments. You may be unfit compared to a 30 year old but if it wasn’t for you they wouldn’t have a game. If you can keep within 20 yards of play then you can get most decisions right. Whatever they said, just report it and if all refs do this, notice will be taken.

You never get to hear of disciplinary actions (I think this should change), unless you know people in the know.

You’re not unfit to ref, but he certainly unfit to coach and I hope he’s banned. Keep on jogging.
 

Zimmyman

Well-Known Member
#5
Zimmyman – First of all sorry to hear of your situation. I know what you mean with the faster game! I’m 52 and requalified last year having refereed many of my son’s u9, u10 and u11 games over the past 3 years. I mentioned to the FA that I was struggling with my knee (following the crab motion at an AR workshop) and was horrified to see they’d appointed me to an u16 game! At least they tried to play football rather than hoofball, so less twisting and running for me.

Re swearing coaches, I had an incident in which a coach called me (as a CAR) an effing cheat and shouted and screamed at the 14 yo ref all game. The ref didn’t know how to deal with the sweary and abusive coach and the home coach actually took his players off the pitch. I was cited in a separate report through the home club and I was meticulous in stating every single incident that went on that game that frankly horrified me. I was pleased to see that the sweary coach’s club was fined and warned, and that the coach appears to have stopped coaching, officially at least. The report against me was not upheld.

I’d therefore encourage you to be very specific and certain about the incidents that happened at the game, as they provide a bigger picture of why this coach should not be involved with youth football and the committee/FA is likely to come down harder on both him and the club. These coaches (and abusive parents) need to be removed from the game altogether.

Re the interaction with the coach, it sounds as if he was in your face from the off and so even after a calming word, it seemed unlikely he would change his stance. I now tend to be very laid back about questions on any of my decisions and probably would have said just that my watches say 40 mins but they might be running fast, and leave it at that. I saw a younger ref do a good shrug of his shoulders last Saturday when a CAR continued to question why an offside hadn’t been given and the ref had just said to him that he’d explained the law and that he couldn’t do any more than that.

As mentioned in recent other threads, dissent is whatever your line in the sand is. The coaches should have taken note of your yellow card more than they did.

Every ref misses tackles and I tend to say that, sorry I might have missed something there, and that has always diffused a potential difficult situation. For a start, the FA respect guidelines state the coach should not question the ref’s decisions so he was in the wrong to start with. I think I’d expand slightly on the reason I wasn’t giving a foul but you have every right to just say no. He doesn’t have a right to say what he did, but by the sounds of it he wanted to be sent off.

I don’t understand your last paragraph. Most coaches never send in reports, it’s just a way to try and get a little victory in their mind. I hope you wrote everything that happened in your report, including good handshakes with players and the fact that parents were telling the coach to stop it, as well as his unfit comments. You may be unfit compared to a 30 year old but if it wasn’t for you they wouldn’t have a game. If you can keep within 20 yards of play then you can get most decisions right. Whatever they said, just report it and if all refs do this, notice will be taken.

You never get to hear of disciplinary actions (I think this should change), unless you know people in the know.

You’re not unfit to ref, but he certainly unfit to coach and I hope he’s banned. Keep on jogging.
Thank you great advice and a bit of a comfort to me many thanks
 

Tino Best

RefChat Addict
#6
Sounds like your use of cards were good. Report as an extraordinary report. Get advice off your RDO. Any manger or player who says that gets red all day long. As for your age easy target, could have had a C2 for that comment alone. Don't take any rubbish off theses kind of idiots. Also the more games you ref you realise as your positioning improves you dont need to runs as much as when you first start out. Get back on your bike and keep doing the good job you are doing.
 

Trip

Well-Known Member
#7
Coaches like that are why I stopped doing youth football. I wouldn't beat yourself up about it. It's awful having to deal with that sort of behaviour.

The league almost certainly knows about this guy already. Your misconduct report will go to the FA but I would also send an email to the welfare officer at the league. U15s do not need to be exposed to that sort of behaviour.
 
#8
It's a wonder that the players behaviour didn't copy this coaches, credit to them. I would say that you are more patient than I. At any youth game, if I heard a coach swear it would be an instant dismissal. I wouldn't ask him for his name, let county sort that one out. It's unacceptable behaviour. Don't give up, maybe take some cod liver oil
 

Brian Hamilton

I am the storm
Observer/Tutor
#9
Posts like the first in this thread used to make me very angry at the inability of the referee to deal with the situation. Recently I recognised that's because I have the benefit of 20 years with a whistle behind me.

Coaches will always seek to find something to beat you with (as mentioned above). It's their deflection technique as learned from the boys on Match of the Day. Once you get over that and continue to talk to them as a reasonably well mannered adult they will realise they are not getting to you. I'm edging into my late 50s, I have bad knees (probably arthritis) and a heart condition. My appointments secretary isn't forgiving as I've moved from U15 to U16 and on Sunday have U17 at a fairly vociferous club. I get these games because of my experience. It is true that I do the first 10 yards in my head and the second 10 yards at a jog, but I'm always there and always right on the big calls.

Please don't be discouraged by the attempts of coaches to put doubt in your head. If you hadn't been good enough on your course, they wouldn't have let you loose to referee. As I said to someone the other day who was complaining about the standard of refereeing, they get what they deserve in terms of appointed match official. So if their referee is poor, then what does that say about their club?
 

Sheffields Finest

Maybe I'm foolish, maybe I'm blind!
#10
Posts like the first in this thread used to make me very angry at the inability of the referee to deal with the situation. Recently I recognised that's because I have the benefit of 20 years with a whistle behind me.

Coaches will always seek to find something to beat you with (as mentioned above). It's their deflection technique as learned from the boys on Match of the Day. Once you get over that and continue to talk to them as a reasonably well mannered adult they will realise they are not getting to you. I'm edging into my late 50s, I have bad knees (probably arthritis) and a heart condition. My appointments secretary isn't forgiving as I've moved from U15 to U16 and on Sunday have U17 at a fairly vociferous club. I get these games because of my experience. It is true that I do the first 10 yards in my head and the second 10 yards at a jog, but I'm always there and always right on the big calls.

Please don't be discouraged by the attempts of coaches to put doubt in your head. If you hadn't been good enough on your course, they wouldn't have let you loose to referee. As I said to someone the other day who was complaining about the standard of refereeing, they get what they deserve in terms of appointed match official. So if their referee is poor, then what does that say about their club?
Nowt wrong wi thi common sense advice organ @Brian Hamilton ;)
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#11
Posts like the first in this thread used to make me very angry at the inability of the referee to deal with the situation. Recently I recognised that's because I have the benefit of 20 years with a whistle behind me.

Coaches will always seek to find something to beat you with (as mentioned above). It's their deflection technique as learned from the boys on Match of the Day. Once you get over that and continue to talk to them as a reasonably well mannered adult they will realise they are not getting to you. I'm edging into my late 50s, I have bad knees (probably arthritis) and a heart condition. My appointments secretary isn't forgiving as I've moved from U15 to U16 and on Sunday have U17 at a fairly vociferous club. I get these games because of my experience. It is true that I do the first 10 yards in my head and the second 10 yards at a jog, but I'm always there and always right on the big calls.

Please don't be discouraged by the attempts of coaches to put doubt in your head. If you hadn't been good enough on your course, they wouldn't have let you loose to referee. As I said to someone the other day who was complaining about the standard of refereeing, they get what they deserve in terms of appointed match official. So if their referee is poor, then what does that say about their club?
The OP (and others like it), leave me wishing i'd seen the game, otherwise we're left guessing
The only time i've resorted to dismissing a manager, i definitely felt i could've handled it better. Even though it was he who behaved like a complete tit, i was only interested in how i'd mishandled the tit and what i should do differently next time
So if i question @Zimmyman 's handling, that's only because i afford myself the same treatment
 

Zimmyman

Well-Known Member
#12
It's a wonder that the players behaviour didn't copy this coaches, credit to them. I would say that you are more patient than I. At any youth game, if I heard a coach swear it would be an instant dismissal. I wouldn't ask him for his name, let county sort that one out. It's unacceptable behaviour. Don't give up, maybe take some cod liver oil
LOL !!!
 

Big Cat

RefChat Addict
#13
I wouldn't ask him for his name
If you didn't attempt to ascertain the culprit's name, who would the CFA levy the charge against? Although the club may be fined, I can't see how a charge against an individual would stick, especially under appeal. I ain't got much experience of dealing with CFA's, so this is merely what I'd surmise
 

Chrisp72

Always smiling
#14
If you didn't attempt to ascertain the culprit's name, who would the CFA levy the charge against? Although the club may be fined, I can't see how a charge against an individual would stick, especially under appeal. I ain't got much experience of dealing with CFA's, so this is merely what I'd surmise
 

JamesL

RefChat Addict
#16
Coaches will always seek to find something to beat you with (as mentioned above). It's their deflection technique as learned from the boys on Match of the Day.
Have to agree with this. Recently, in 2 or 3 games at full time managers have complained that I had played too much, or too little added time.

I take that as, you had a good game and I have nothing to complain about so I am going to choose time added on.

They just have to have something.

Not Strangely, 1 complained about not enough as his team were on top and looked most likely to score next and oddly the one who said I played too much had conceded deep in stoppage time and ignored the fact I played a further 5 mins after that. Apparently this cost them the game!!!
 
#19
Coaches like that are why I stopped doing youth football. I wouldn't beat yourself up about it. It's awful having to deal with that sort of behaviour.

The league almost certainly knows about this guy already. Your misconduct report will go to the FA but I would also send an email to the welfare officer at the league. U15s do not need to be exposed to that sort of behaviour.
Same as me. I much prefer being AR in a 3, with a better degree of professionalism/behaviour as a general rule.

Even as a level 7 I get decent games across a wide range of competitions, by signing up as an AR on a few comps and taking games as they come as a 'freelance' (not tied to one league) the rest of the time.

I do the odd middle to keep my 'eye' in, but last season of the near 50 games I did only a few were middles. Plenty of games out there, whatever your level both in terms of qualification and fitness. Maybe its because I'm a bit older and more experienced, but long ago gave up doing games in comps that were a hassle - its meant to be an enjoyable hobby - yes we all have to be professional - but at the level most of us are at, its not meant to be a trial week in week out.

The more referees that don't sign up for youth leagues because of behaviour such as op highlighted, the more chance of that behaviour improving.
 
#20
Have to agree with this. Recently, in 2 or 3 games at full time managers have complained that I had played too much, or too little added time.

I take that as, you had a good game and I have nothing to complain about so I am going to choose time added on.

They just have to have something.

Not Strangely, 1 complained about not enough as his team were on top and looked most likely to score next and oddly the one who said I played too much had conceded deep in stoppage time and ignored the fact I played a further 5 mins after that. Apparently this cost them the game!!!
Indeed Russell. Another well heard moan that means nothing is the accusation of lack of 'Consistency' - ref had that on Sunday from the losing (obviously) manager.

Just another way of

a) letting off steam after a defeat
b) Saying 'You didn't give us enough decisions'
 
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