Maguire hb yay or nay

[Pembroke]

The 'natural' reaction or instinct I expect from a high level player who is defending a ball about to be kicked from close distance is to move towards it

A natural reflex reaction is not to move towards a threat.

 

[one]

A natural reflex reaction is not to move towards a threat.

Not for a top player. Over years of playing they train themselves and the nature of their reaction changes to prioritise defending the ball.
Having said that you cut an important part of my post. They also turn to protect themselves from being hit in the face.

 

[BCMilan]

Overall, I think it's technically not handball, but it would be a hard sell for us on a typical Sunday league game

 

[Pembroke]

Not for a top player. Over years of playing they train themselves and the nature of their reaction changes to prioritise defending the ball.
Having said that you cut an important part of my post. They also turn to protect themselves from being hit in the face.

You are confusing what is natural with what is trained. A involuntary reflex action cannot be trained, its involuntary. Reactions and reflexes simply are not the same thing. One is voluntary, and one is involuntary. Reflex has no brain involvement, reactions require the brain to a make decisions.

In regards to turn to protect .. Frequently that is a no. Training will frequently attempt to form reaction that defends the body while looking at the ball. In the time Maguire had to respond to what was occurring its doubtful that his training would take total control of physical movements as this pattern recognition will frequently not override natural reflexes, due to reflexes acting faster than reflexes 50 milliseconds to hundreds of milliseconds. In the time Maguire had to react his reactions will not have superseded his reflexes.

 

[santa sangria]

I think there are great stills of Harry, one arm up quite high, that make it look a lot like making the body unnaturally bigger to block the clearance.

Given the guidance and laws, I am happy with ItootR here.

And I would blow very fast before the next touch if I was in a similar situation and could react (at the level I whistle at).

 

[Pembroke]

Well, the glossary if the magic book says

Deliberate​

An action which the player intended/meant to make; it is not a ‘reflex’ or unintended reaction​

That definition predates splitting out unnatural from deliberate. I think it pretty clearly is intended to apply to HB offenses (other than the attacker who scores). And I think it unambiguously applies in the professional game. I think what changes is what is acceptable as a reasonable reflex. At U8, it is incredibly broad. In the professional game it is incredibly narrow. And it is a sliding scale between them. Whether this incident applies is a matter of referee judgment. (I haven’t seen the live play and don’t want to opine from a still shot.)

What are you referring to?

 

[socal lurker]

What are you referring to?

The Laws of the Game. Glossary of football terms.

 

[Pembroke]

The Laws of the Game. Glossary of football terms.

I question if there was some further guidance out there - I heard natural silhouette mentioned in relation in to Maguire.

 

[socal lurker]

Natural silhouette is not in the Laws. It is a common explanation for some incidents. I don't think it is really relevant here. For this play I think the real question is whether, ITOOTR, whether or not there was a reflexive act of self=protection that is reasonable for a professional footballer. If so, I don't think it is handling under the Laws. I've only seen still shots, but it appears to me this is one on which reasonable minds can differ.

 

[RustyRef]

I think he could reasonably expect it to hit him in the face not the chest … and I’m not sure any player at any level should be expected to just run the risk of that occurring …..

I think he was more worried about the opponent clattering him rather than the ball. If two players are likely to collide it is absolutely human reaction that arms come up to protect themselves (and arguably protect their opponent).

Years ago I got flattened on the pitch, I was told I was out cold although I'm still not sure I was. A set piece was headed clear, I realised I was in a terrible position so tried to take evasive action and in doing so ran right into the path of the attacker coming in to volley the ball. He was much bigger than me so I came off worse, although he also needed treatment. It was filmed and I saw the video, once I realised I was getting clattered I raised my arms in front of my face, it is just a totally natural reaction. Unfortunately he had the same reaction and whacked me on the side of the head with his forearm. I was also reliably informed that people who realise they are about to be hit by a car / bus / train do the same, clearly it isn't going to help them but it is a reflex reaction.