Liverpool Vs Arsenal

[Josh the referee]

Because it's very low down the list of priorities.

I agree but just think there was a lot of unnecessary and unwanted physical contact with match officials in this game in particular and others over the weekend.

And, I also agree with your 2nd point. How long do we think the PGMOL will take with their "investigation"?

 

[Matthew]

The assistant referee was, in my opinion, shrugging him off rather than intending to elbow him, but if the FA/PGMOL determines that it was deliberate rather than accidental he deserves whatever punishment is deemed to be appropriate.

What we can’t ignore is that, once again, we have a case of a Premier League player placing his hands on a match official. This is happening more and more often and the FA/PGMOL need to act to put a stop to it. Regardless of what others may argue, seeing this does have an impact on grassroots and the failure to deal with it is putting referees up and down the country in danger.

 

[socal lurker]

We're talking about an official elbowing a player in the throat and that player then getting booked as a result.

Is that why he was cautioned? The AR response seems pretty strong, which suggests there is more to the story than just the player coming up to him, which seems to suggest that cautionable behavior occurred before the elbow. (Though, frankly, it would seem that anything being said that would inflame an AR enough to cause the throwing an elbow would have been something that reached up to OFFINABUS and a send off--though perhaps the R wasn't willing to deal with optics of sending off a player who was just hit by his AR?) It will be interesting to see what comes out of the investigation.

 

[Redref34]

On a side note…

Has anyone ever been touched/assaulted by a player? If so how and how did you deal with it?

If not .. how do you think you would deal with it if it happened?

 

[DAW7]

I think Tierney dealt with the coach approach at half time well, it very much had the appearance of "this conversation is not happening here" but without the force of "go away, there isn't a conversation to have".

Just observations, obviously don't know for definite what was said by all parties or what conversation took place later!

 

[GraemeS]

Is that why he was cautioned? The AR response seems pretty strong, which suggests there is more to the story than just the player coming up to him, which seems to suggest that cautionable behavior occurred before the elbow. (Though, frankly, it would seem that anything being said that would inflame an AR enough to cause the throwing an elbow would have been something that reached up to OFFINABUS and a send off--though perhaps the R wasn't willing to deal with optics of sending off a player who was just hit by his AR?) It will be interesting to see what comes out of the investigation.

You don't need me to tell you how rare dissent cautions are in the PL, add another level of rarity for cards during HT of any sort. It's not impossible, but I thank we can say its pretty unlikely that he was due to be cautioned pre-contact. Partly because that doesn't really happen and partly because the AR appears basically neutral towards him until the initial contact.

Balance of probability is that he was either cautioned for the contact (in which case the elbow by the AR is clearly the more serious offence) or his response, neither of which sit well with me.

 

[deusex]

Grabbing the arm of someone who has walked past you is pretty high on the aggressive act scale.
I encourage all those of you calling for the AR's punishment to try this at work or, even better, your local supermarket and report back to me how you get on.

This is quite clearly an instinctive reaction and I hope no action is taken.

 

[socal lurker]

Grabbing the arm of someone who has walked past you is pretty high on the aggressive act scale.
I encourage all those of you calling for the AR's punishment to try this at work or, even better, your local supermarket and report back to me how you get on.

This is quite clearly an instinctive reaction and I hope no action is taken.

No action? You’ve got to be kidding. An AR has to have more control than that. The player’s misbehavior absolutely does not justify the reaction. I‘m in no way excusing the player’s behavior; but that doesn’t mean I have to excuse the AR’s poor conduct, either.

 

[one]

Just my opinion, while I can see why we want to support and back a colleague up, I feel that he is getting more support than he deserves here.

I don't like that we are giving him an excuse of he did it because...

If we go by expectations, what the AR did is by no means expected from an AR. Shrugging someone of with an elbow at chin level is not the usual way of doing it unless aggression and physicality is intended (even subconsciously).

Having said all this, I am not saying this because I think it's ok for players to approach officials with aggression. I think we should hold ourselves to the highest standard of professionalism.

 

[GraemeS]

Exactly. I recall a red card I gave earlier this season - 2 footed over the ball tackle, but the fouled player jumped up and immediately shoved the offender. The fact the initial offence in that case was a red card doesn't excuse the reaction, and the "victim" still got himself an AA caution regardless of the "reason" for the response, because we expect players not to react even to serious provocation.

I don't really care what the "reason" for the elbow is. We look at them as two separate incidents, reason and response. The punishment for a player with that response would be a red card and 3 matches off, no question. For a match official, I think he will count himself lucky if they just stand him down for the rest of the season and quietly let him start again in August. And I would also hope that even unofficially, he's kept away from Liverpool games for a while, that's pressure and potential future accusations that can be easily avoided.

I also wonder what the referee could have done if he'd actually seen it (we have to assume he didn't). If he'd seen his AR strike a player, surely he would be obliged to stand him down and have the 4th/reserve AR take over for the second half?

 

[Redster]

Has he admitted there was an elbow yet? I'm unconvinced on the issue of contact or on the issue of intention to strike

 

[GraemeS]

I didn't realise referees were in the habit of asking suspected offenders to describe their actions and reasons before deciding on punishment? I've made a terrible mistake this weekend then - I shouldn't have sent off the GK who insisted the ball hit his chest not hands outside the PA...

 

[Kent Ref]

The assistant is suspended while they investigate meanwhile a premiership player admits to making multiple bets but they play for their club team still.

Seems a bit odd.

 

[Redster]

I didn't realise referees were in the habit of asking suspected offenders to describe their actions and reasons before deciding on punishment? I've made a terrible mistake this weekend then - I shouldn't have sent off the GK who insisted the ball hit his chest not hands outside the PA...

This bloke wasn't sent off by a referee. He was accused of elbowing by a player in a fairly flamboyant, embellished manner. Not overly credible.

 

[GraemeS]

This bloke wasn't sent off by a referee. He was accused of elbowing by a player in a fairly flamboyant, embellished manner. Not overly credible.

So? Why do we care what he says he did or why he says he did it? That's not how anything like this ever works.

 

[Gamespoiler]

It's impossible for anyone to make a judgement on this just by video evidence, I'm sure we would all like to think that there was no intent to strike the player but I'm also sure that we can all fully sympathise with the AR. It is simply unacceptable for any player to approach the match official in this manner. What was he expecting the AR to do? re-start play and go back and change a decision? There needs to be a zero tolerance on dissent throughout the game which will then go some way to prevent incidents of this nature from happening. Bring in sin bins at this level just like at grass roots and use them. Once that happens, it makes it far easier for grass roots referees and players to get the message. If Robertson has an ounce of decency in him, he would come out now apologising for the way in which he approached the official. Doesn't excuse the AR behaviour? I don't really care if it does or doesn't because time and time again, things like this are happening against match officials and it is not acceptable.

 

[Redster]

So? Why do we care what he says he did or why he says he did it? That's not how anything like this ever works.

That's precisely how it will work because the facts will be determined by way of hearing in accordance with the principles of natural justice. The ARs version will be heard and the Ayer's version will be heard. If there was a referee's report it would be presumed to be correct (at least to a point) - there was not.

The way this incident has been discussed at various points in this thread it would seem the assumption that the AR deliberately elbowed a player in the face.

 

[Mr Dean]

I'm struggling to think of another sport where players and officials clash so often. Maybe it's time football started to learn from other sports.

The problem appears to be the IFAB - they refuse to 'copy' other sports and are intent on being 'trailblazers'. I can only assume it is some sort of egotistical flex where the people in IFAB want to leave their own personal mark on football. When introducing video technology to assist referees, IFAB came up with a system no other sport is using despite other systems working well in many sports. When it comes to concussion substitutes, temporary substitutes seems to work ok in other sports yet IFAB refuse to even trial it. Even something simple like sin bins has been needlessly convoluted to the point where some referees don't even bother with it.

Solutions can be found in other sports and copying them is not a bad thing.

 

[one]

I have said it before of a need for a culture shift, right from the top. As long as we have this sort of 'acceptance' by IFAB we have no hope of that badly needed culture shift.

 

[GraemeS]

That's precisely how it will work because the facts will be determined by way of hearing in accordance with the principles of natural justice. The ARs version will be heard and the Ayer's version will be heard. If there was a referee's report it would be presumed to be correct (at least to a point) - there was not.

The way this incident has been discussed at various points in this thread it would seem the assumption that the AR deliberately elbowed a player in the face.

You use the word "assumption" to downplay the evidence. We're not assuming anything - we've all see the videos and can all draw whatever conclusion we draw. Assumptions don't come into it.

And the AR will say of course he didn't - because apart from anything else, there's literally no benefit to saying he did it deliberately.

The point is, I don't really care what he decides to claim in any tribunal, and I don't really care what he tries to spin as reasons. I'd be happy with a red card and a suspension for a player who did that. So for me, the only question is what is the equivalent to that punishment for a match official - and I don't need his input for that.