A&H

Just can't be bothered anymore

Are you there to be popular or to officiate according to the LOTG?

Because you won't achieve both, certainly not on parks football.

If you're there to have smoke blown up your back passage and be the players best mate, then be prepared to accept all sorts of abuse.....you'll probably be able to justify not dealing with it as 'managing' or pretending that you weren't offended but at least the players will like you.

If, however, you want to do the job properly, set your stall out early on and the abusers will either shut up or be off the pitch. After a while your reputation will proceed you and only the most stupid players will find their way into your book.....and their team mates will moan at them because 'you know what he's like....' Making your cards easier to sell.
Yes, your card count will rise initially but once teams understand you're not going to take their crap, it will fall to nearer average levels.

The most important thing is to be consistent with it, once you bring the cards out, they stay out. Players need to know where the line is, so once you draw it, every time it's crossed your response needs to be consistent.
 
The Referee Store
I have to Agree with HRWs comments. cards do not diffuse a situation. They just increase the hatred of the referee. Cards are required on occasion with the occasionally idiot but if you are consistent and get a firm grip of a game early on, respect is earned and makes a game a lot easier. Cards are not required and do not earn respect.
I did a game today. Div 1 of a 6 league structure that I referee in. 1 team is way too good and other team is totally outclassed and lose 5-0. Neither team showed dissent and was a pleasure to referee. But I know this was an exception.
Thanks to refereeing Im fitter than I have ever been. And I'm young enough to play again.
Im really struggling to justify carrying on with the whistle.
Im not prepared to dictate to my local FA that I have to do higher league games to remain satisfied as I think that is selfish and unfair. But I worry that if i stayed doing lower league my card count would increase and I'd turn into a proper hitler of a ref.

Man alive. No wonder you are thinking of quiting refereeing if you genuinely believe that cards increase the hatred of referees - your post suggests that you are mistaking an at times necessary game management tool with a means of losing popularity? If you want to be popular and well liked, I would suggest that refereeing is going to be difficult for you - there will be times when you HAVE TO give a disputed penalty, HAVE TO send off a player for DOGSO, HAVE TO deal with OFFINABUS, HAVE TO caution for kicking the ball away, HAVE TO caution for dissent because that is what the laws of the game dictate and it is what both teams expect to happen. It is how you attain consistency and that is what players do respect. In fact, if you ever hear the words "popular referee" applied to you, have a little think what you have done to deserve that title. The phrase you want is "respected referee" or similar and it is a very different thing to popular. And of course, if you have never been booed off a pitch you haven't lived! :D (semi-joking with that last comment)

No referee should ever judge his abilities on a football pitch by his popularity with players or supporters - if your ego needs it, take along a senior refereeing colleague (or go through the promotion process if you are that way inclined) to get an unbiased view of your skills and areas that you need to develop.
 
Referees I assess often try to find out what kind of refereeing I like to see. The answer is simple, see every offence, be in the right place, issue the mandatory cautions/dismissals and the rest is up for debate. The problem is that some can't seem to find the line between a player protest and dissent. Dissent is easy to spot. If everyone in the whole ground/park heard what the player said and they choose to accompany it with either a run towards me or start windmilling their arms, then they don't leave me much option. As Padfoot says, your reputation will proceed you and players won't bother, well apart from the ones who think their manager and 9/10 team mates are kidding when they tell them to keep it shut. In the first couple of seasons I cautioned a lot for dissent and even when I was being assessed, one of the County's most senior assessors said, "I heard nobody could talk to you". He was pleasantly surprised and since then I've developed a bunch of caustic one liners that I usually mutter to one of the offending player's knowing team mates/opponents. It raises a chuckle, the game goes on, he pays his £10 and maybe next time he won't do it again.

Picking up on SM's point, I have a very good friend. He liked to manage a lot on the field. Being an ex-player he liked to keep the game flowing by playing advantage. He thought it was great if everyone walked off the field slapping him on the back, shaking his hand. One time in a cup final, he tried to play advantage (3 times back to back) in the defensive third and it went wrong. After 7 dismissals and a couple of cautions following the mass confrontation that ensued, he changed his style. He started doing what he needed to do. He became a much better and more accomplished referee. He is highly respected within his peer group, despite the occasional slip. It is not a popularity contest being a referee.
 
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I have to Agree with HRWs comments. cards do not diffuse a situation. They just increase the hatred of the referee. Cards are required on occasion with the occasionally idiot but if you are consistent and get a firm grip of a game early on, respect is earned and makes a game a lot easier. Cards are not required and do not earn respect.
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Sorry Tom, your attitude towards cards is dead wrong. Gaining the respect of players is nice, but is not part of my duties as a referee, upholding the laws of the game (including dissent) is.
My allegiance is to the brand new referee doing next week's match, not the player that has just give me an ear-bashing.
As for the "cards are not required" comment, I would ask you why most EPL refs average 2-3 cautions a match. These are the guys that have been selected based on having outstanding man managament skills and they still need cards to control a game, so you can be damn sure you or I will. I've averaged 2.3 this season, so I'm not exactly The Cardinator.
The stepped approach DOES NOT mean the player gets to commit 4 cautionable offences before getting a YC. If I require a YC in the 7th minute like last weekend, so be it.
 
You need to find your own motivation for getting out there every week.

Without meaning to sound rude, but refereeing isnt for everyone.
 
So we are now using a card count to determine how well we are doing?

In that case I must be bottom of the list - not had a red for over a season, and majority of games it's one or two YC and hardly ever for dissent. I tell the guys in my pre-match that I'm not a thief, but I also don't like being shouted at.

First one I get, pull him over with captain and give him the public bo!!ocking and in general, that's sorted the game out. Odd one or two from there will go on and go in the book, but they have no room for complaint as the line has been drawn so only got themselves to blame (and normally the rest of the team on their case too).

Cards do not manage the game. They will generally not diffuse a situation, they will, in most cases escalate it. Especially if the receipient feels that they are on the receiving end of an injustice.

If you are using a lot of cards it's because you are being REactive to what you have let it get to, as opposed to PROactive to avoid getting to the situation in the first place.

If you have ever done any form of Root Cause Analysis you are asked to ask the 5 Whys?

Why are you getting card card out? Because they are showing you dissent by word or action

Why are they showing you dissent? Because they are so upset or angered by the injustice they have received, that they cant keep a lid on it any longer.

Why? Because you have been inconsistant / missed something your should have seen / they are wanting to pull one over you and intimidate you.

Why?

Why = the main route cause / reason for being in the situation you are in, who ever or what ever is the reason. It can be an eye opener behaving like a 5 year old and asking why, but it gets to the source.

I kind of see SM's point that this a bit simplistic - sure there are some circumstances where the 4th why gets a different answer and then the 5th (or 6th) gives you a different root cause, but in general this is the best post on the thread by a distance.

If we want to improve as referees we have to be prepared to be VERY self-critical, and the reality is that on many occasions things that we have done will have contributed to, or even fully caused, a player's dissent. Once we take a look at that and address the areas where we can improve then two things happen: (1) we get less dissent in each game (2) the players who do dissent are entirely responsible for their YC.

Four or five years ago I was just promoted to level 6 but I wasn't enjoying games. Almost every game was a battle; they were a battle with 22 players, with 4 or 5 coaches, with club assistants, with subs, with spectators and I was walking away with everyone thoroughly hacked off, 5 cautions for C2, 1 caution for C1, a coach misconduct report for having a go at me and an offinabus for having a go at me. Law 5 says that I am The Ref and that I can do this, indeed Law 5 says that I am always right, even when I'm wrong, but the reality is that I wasn't right, and that in order to get out of this situation I had to take a long hard look at myself first of all before just blaming the players and brushing everything else under the carpet.

A couple of years and lots of helpful guidance later I'm often walking away from a game with only C1s and C4s in the book and players telling me I got some decisions wrong, but I had a good game. What's changed? Two things:

1) I thought about what I could be doing that might be getting in the way of me making good decisions and realised that while I was fit enough I wasn't working hard enough at getting into good positions, close enough to play and with a good angle to make a credible decision. Working to make sure that I stay close to play from minute 1 to minute 90 and that I'm always taking the best ANGLE has improved my decision making

2) I realised that actually the players had no idea what I was thinking. I wasn't talking to them, I wasn't letting them know what I was thinking until the whistle went, or even until the cards came out - they were surprised by most decisions and that frustrated them. When some decisions were less than consistent that was too much for them to cope with and the dissent came out. By talking to players throughout the game - "Don't foul", "stay on your feet", "Let him go", "eyes on the ball when it comes down" - they know where the bar is set. They often disagree and they don't like it, but they're not surprised when I do give the foul and there's little or no dissent as a result. Using the stepped approach helps as well - a whispered word as I go past someone, bringing them over for a chat, telling the skipper that the number 4 has done 3/4 fouls and is likely to be cautioned soon if he doesn't calm it, all means that when someone does get cautioned either they knew it was coming, or it's a stone cold yellow anyway!!

Talking players through the game does not come naturally to me - it's very difficult and I've really had to work at it, but it hasn't half made a difference.

There's a few other things that I've used to cut down on dissent too:

1) Dissent is only dissent if it's aimed at you and everyone think's that you've heard it. If you're not around to hear it it's just a moaning player and it's no threat to your authority. If you've made a close call then run away to the next dropping zone: a) the assessor will think you're great for taking up the next position and b) the player who feels wronged won't bother to moan as you ain't there to be moaned at! If he does then it's easy days to C2 him for having a pop from 20-30 yards and everyone else accepts it.

2) Learning the difference between frustration and dissent: frustrated players will swear and that's fine - they're only human like you and I. If it's not personal and it's spur of the moment then ignore it - it's not a threat to your authority. If it keeps on going, or if a player chases after you then that's more than frustration.

3) Be honest with players, particularly when you have club ARs. Saying that you didn't see something because you had a crap angle as you were catching up with their quick break, or saying that a player ran right across your view, or saying that it was on the wrong side from you is absolutely fine (if it's true) and players respect that. "I'm really sorry player - I think he probably did foul you, but my view was blocked and I'd have been guessing if I'd given it. I can see that he's struggling to deal with you and I'll try to do better next time!!"

These are just my thoughts - a personal view on the changes I've made in my game to go from every game being a battle to most of the games being bloody good fun!!
 
If we want to improve as referees we have to be prepared to be VERY self-critical, and the reality is that on many occasions things that we have done will have contributed to, or even fully caused, a player's dissent. Once we take a look at that and address the areas where we can improve then two things happen: (1) we get less dissent in each game (2) the players who do dissent are entirely responsible for their YC.

I disagree a referee can cause a players dissent. A player is entitled to disagree with my decision, they are not allowed to show that disagreement in the form of dissent whatever the circumstances.
 
I disagree a referee can cause a players dissent. A player is entitled to disagree with my decision, they are not allowed to show that disagreement in the form of dissent whatever the circumstances.

Completely agree with you. That is absolutely, 100%, what the laws say, and if they do show dissent in an unacceptable manner then they absolutely must be cautioned.

Problem is, players are only human, just like us. Can you look yourself in the mirror and say that you've never lost it even briefly in the heat of the moment?

The fact that the laws say they must be cautioned when they dissent is separate to the fact that as referees we can, unintentionally (or otherwise!!), wind players up to the point where they dissent. I am not, under any circumstances saying that we shouldn't punish dissent - we must - I'm saying that we should look to do everything we can to make them less likely to dissent in the first place.
 
Playing rugby and football I can say without hesitation - yes, never lost it in the heat of the moment On a pitch be it football or rugby. Because I knew what was coming next if I did.

Don't make excuses for player bad behaviour. DO NOT BE LAST WEEKS REF
 
Completely agree with you. That is absolutely, 100%, what the laws say, and if they do show dissent in an unacceptable manner then they absolutely must be cautioned.

Problem is, players are only human, just like us. Can you look yourself in the mirror and say that you've never lost it even briefly in the heat of the moment?

The fact that the laws say they must be cautioned when they dissent is separate to the fact that as referees we can, unintentionally (or otherwise!!), wind players up to the point where they dissent. I am not, under any circumstances saying that we shouldn't punish dissent - we must - I'm saying that we should look to do everything we can to make them less likely to dissent in the first place.

Pretty much can say I've never lost it on a football pitch. And absolutely never as a ref of course.

I still disagree refs can wind players up to the point they dissent. They may get wound up by a sequence of decisions they feel has gone against them but if they choose for that frustration to be shown as dissent they can't argue with a caution.
 
I can safely say that I HAVE lost it on the pitch, both as a player and as a ref. However, it's how you then act having 'lost it'.

As an individual, you have to calm yourself down. When I lose it as a player, I get cautioned if I react inappropriately. When I referee, I have to ensure I remain calm and control the situation
 
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Playing rugby and football I can say without hesitation - yes, never lost it in the heat of the moment On a pitch be it football or rugby. Because I knew what was coming next if I did.

Don't make excuses for player bad behaviour. DO NOT BE LAST WEEKS REF

Don't just confine it to the pitch - your self control may well be massively better than everyone else's, but if you're honest with yourself then you know that even you have a limit. We all do - we're human.

Also, think about what I'm saying - I'm not making excuses and I'm not last week's ref: I'll book them with a smile on my face when they dissent. And the reason I'm smiling is because I know it's them and not me. I've done all that I can to keep them out of my notebook.
 
What I will do now with dissent is ill give a player 2 chances to walk away if not his going in the book if I get one player running 30 yards to give me dissent he goes in the book Then if he swears directly at me then he can tell me how the showers are its time we went back too having all refs cautioning it or sending them off instead of trying to keep a manager happy
 
I am not going to get all of my decisions right.
If the players can't accept that then I'm not gonna beat myself up over the cautions.
I personally can't believe how many players don't mind paying a tenner every time I ref them.
 
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An interesting topic that ALMOST lost sight of the original poster's message- that he was finding it hard refereeing. Unfortunately when you put on that black strip you MUST put on a thick skin. The first couple of years as a referee, or a new referee to an area, are the hardest to cope with. If a referee is not known they will push you to your absolute limit. You must be strong and be prepared to back it up with cards if needs be. When I first moved to Hampshire was a case in point. My first two seasons I must have issued about 300+ cautions and nearly 35 reds but now having gained a reputation among players and managers I can man manage the game and enjoy it more knowing that players will be wary of gobbing off cos I'll bang them in the book.

A team whose manager I know well is one that gives me the biggest mark of respect because he says I'll have a 'special' word with them ref. Won't change my style but at least he knows I mean business!
 
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