The Ref Stop

Junior/Youth Junior Football & mandatory cautions

lincs22

lincs22

Supply League Observer
Staff member
Observer/Tutor
I was watching a local U11 game yesterday morning. In two instances, the goal scorer (one from each team) took their shirt off after scoring. The referee did not caution either of them, but seeing the other Junior post on sending-offs, I was wondering what you would do?

These players are following their ?heros? on the telly, should they be cautionned as it is a mandatory?

Additionally, one player could not get his shirt back on properly for the re-start. The referee delayed the start of the game until he was properly kitted out. I would have made the player leave the FOP and not allow him back on until the next stoppage, as with any other breach of Law 4. Any thoughts?

The players might learn if they have to send a few minutes off and the opposition scored due to them being one man down. If any club official queried whether you were allowed to do this, then I think I woudl have followed the mandatory procedure and cost the club £10 for the caution...
 
The Ref Stop
Personally I would caution. They see their heroes do it but they also see their heroes get booked for it every single time.
 
I am not going to caution u11s for this

(Without wanting to expand on the OP - I would probably not caution / send-off an u11 for ANYTHING except the most violent of offences)

Be interested in how other non-cautioning refs (if there are any) would try to get the "don't do that again" message over to the players / managers please
 
I'm sure I'd be lynched again, but yellow card all day for me. It's Sunday league football, not the world cup final so there should be an element of good sportsmanship in my opinion. I'd be expecting the manager to have a word with them.
 
Alex71 said:
I am not going to caution u11s for this

(Without wanting to expand on the OP - I would probably not caution / send-off an u11 for ANYTHING except the most violent of offences)

Be interested in how other non-cautioning refs (if there are any) would try to get the "don't do that again" message over to the players / managers please
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At what age would you start cautioning and sending off at youth football? I'm genuinely interested what age you think it is right to start enforcing the laws of the game? Say this lad scores 75 goals a season and takes his top off each time, next season does he then get booked, or does this carry on for a few years before he's pulled up on it?

By the way I'm not trying to be aggressive or anything, I am interested in people's rational when it comes to youth football.
 
@DaveMac - no worries - I'm always interested in people's opinions and reasoning too!

I will treat u16 (and older) the same way I treat OA players - full enforcement of the Laws

Younger than that I am a little 'softer' depending on the offence - but - don't have my own guidelines for what age I'd send off for (for example):
  • handball on the line
  • 2nd caution for shirt-off goal celebration
  • punch
I've only had one opportunity to send off an u14 - it was for violent conduct (a kick out after he'd been pushed) ... I did send him off

@DaveMac - is there an age where you would / wouldn't send off (incl. ask manager to sub player) for any of the 3 examples above ..?
 
HertsFinest said:
When I was 14 I got sent off 3 times in a season for DOGSO. Maybe I should have played in your league @Alex71
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3 times !?!? ... they do say that ex-criminals make the policemen :)

Hand on heart I've never had a youth DOGSO ... given an increased allowance for ability, distance to goal, etc. for youth players - if it warranted it I'd probably send off for it however
 
I was the fastest centre back you've seen but my counterpart was a bit dopey so he'd loose his striker, I'd fly in from behind and got caught a few times last man at edge of box. Think it was because they were all so far beyond other players (good ten yards) that I walked for them.

Personally I'd have had a word with me :D
 
@Alex71 I find youth football can be a minefield. Even at the same age level some lads are more mature than others, so tend to be fairly flexible depending on the situation. At OA everyone knows the rules and knows what they are doing, at youth age some of the lads are still getting used to their bodies and things can happen that maybe should be handled more severely but dont.

My general yard stick at youth level, and yes this will sound very up in the air, but if they want to act like adults they can be treated like them. Removing their shirt to celebrate (I've never had it happen) if they want to act like their heroes and do this, then they must realise that their favourite player gets booked for doing it, so they receive that punishment.

WIth your examples the handball on the line would be getting a red at any age, however the younger you go it would have to be REALLY obvious to be a red card and could sell it as a yellow, so would be doing that as best I can!

Shirt off would be getting a yellow all day long. Mainly because I hate bad losers and bad winners in equal measure. At youth level (u14) the happiest I ever was when I saw a lad score a goal in a cup game, demolition job of 5-1, and he ran over to the corner flag and sat down doing some weird celebration. Manager shouts at him, hauls him off and gives him a right earful on the sideline. I agree they should be able to get excited about scoring and this isnt like during the war where everyone just shakes hands, but a bit of good grace should come into play.

Punch is also getting punished as well. If we let them get away with this at any age it just teaches them that doing it is acceptable and makes problems for as they get older in my opinion. My first red card was in fact two at u13 level. Goal kick awarded, I'm running to the halfway line, look at the box and out of no where two lads just punching each other. Obviously over as quickly as it started, but in my opinion you cannot have that sort of violence on the football pitch at any age.

I should add I've never given a red for DOGSO at youth level for the same reason as you. I was even told when doing my referees course that at Sunday league level the only DOGSO would be if the attacker was 2 yards out with an open goal, and even then its not a sure thing. Obviously it was a tongue in cheek comment!
 
@DaveMac - very good post - you're right - especially the bit about players acting as adults and body changes

I used to think fun and enjoyment before enforcing some Laws for youth games ... a lot of it now unfortunately is expectations vs the laws - as you say - shirt off in a tv game is a caution

I still want to see the fun in games though - I've had these 3 recently and let them all go unpunished ...
  • player scores a goal, sees a bus coming down the road - runs across the road and jumps on the bus
  • player scores a goal, trots over to the corner flag - hurls it like a javelin into a river (his dad went and got it!)
  • players scores a goal, does the best Elvis impression I've seen and then runs out of the park saying "Elvis has left the building!"
 
The FA, in their wisdom, have published their laws for mini-soccer, which is played up to U10. The FA have surely then decided that U11 and up are subject to the full LotG. Now, where there's an element of "in the opinion of the referee", yes you can let it go - but anything else you have to book as you would any other player (except for technical offences, obviously ;)). I've had managers come up to me after games, where I'm expecting them to have a go for a booking I've given, and they actually thank me "as that player doesn't want to listen to his coaches". And don't underestimate how crafty they can be as well, that they unfortunately pick up from the TV.
 
I had a 9 year old who pushed me to the limit of my patience on Sunday. Lots of fouls followed by a "what?" face each time and a slam down of the ball after one decision. Plenty of calm down's from me but his coach thankfully took him off for a rest but then the player carried on! I very loudly said to the coach "have a word with j***".

After the game, shook player's hand and said you're a great player but referees won't stand for that behaviour when you're older. Let's hope he gets the message!
 
DanRicketts said:
I had a 9 year old who pushed me to the limit of my patience on Sunday. Lots of fouls followed by a "what?" face each time and a slam down of the ball after one decision. Plenty of calm down's from me but his coach thankfully took him off for a rest but then the player carried on! I very loudly said to the coach "have a word with j***".

After the game, shook player's hand and said you're a great player but referees won't stand for that behaviour when you're older. Let's hope he gets the message!
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...and if he does it again next match.....and has a like-minded ref?

...and the match after that.....and the match after that

What do we learn?
 
What is youth football for? Perhaps at this level its doubly tricky as the younger refs in our league (14/15) may not want to card and as we don't have a dedicated refs secretary we have not had clear guidance on what is expected from us and the teams. I was going to ping him for the edge of area foul as I would have for any OA game but what does the card teach him? Do you ref under 10s haywain?
 
HertsFinest said:
Personally I would caution. They see their heroes do it but they also see their heroes get booked for it every single time.
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Actually, they probably don't see their heroes get booked. The problem is that the booking takes place while replays are being shown. And at least 50% of the time, you don't get a confirmation on the graphics that a booking happened. I always check back on the official reports to see if the player was booked (and he always has been, but you have to make sure you are seing reports that are not based on a journalist jotting down whatever he sees on TV).
 
DanRicketts said:
What is youth football for? Perhaps at this level its doubly tricky as the younger refs in our league (14/15) may not want to card and as we don't have a dedicated refs secretary we have not had clear guidance on what is expected from us and the teams. I was going to ping him for the edge of area foul as I would have for any OA game but what does the card teach him? Do you ref under 10s haywain?
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One of the first leagues to kick of in Norway are the U19s premier divisions. As a result the first few rounds are often refereed by Norwegian Premier division referees, for them to get som match practise before the top division kicks off. A few years ago, I was fortunate enough to be the assistant referee for one of our more experienced (and former FIFA) referees in such a match. One thing he said before the match was: "We set tha bar for issuing yellows for dissent low today. We are grown men, and we are not about to go out there and be told of by a group of kids".
 
Morten said:
Actually, they probably don't see their heroes get booked. The problem is that the booking takes place while replays are being shown. And at least 50% of the time, you don't get a confirmation on the graphics that a booking happened. I always check back on the official reports to see if the player was booked (and he always has been, but you have to make sure you are seing reports that are not based on a journalist jotting down whatever he sees on TV).
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Maybe in Norway, but on Sky over here it is always flashed up.

Regardless, kids of that age KNOW its a booking
 
Down under, U/10 and up play on the full sized field, 11-a-side (not sure if it's still the case now, there have been changes to juniors).

So for me - if it's on the full field, they play full laws. Of course you take the age into consideration, but if it's mandatory, the card has to come out. We get to control how we approach it though.

Morten said:
One thing he said before the match was: "We set tha bar for issuing yellows for dissent low today. We are grown men, and we are not about to go out there and be told of by a group of kids".
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I'm the same - far less tolerant of dissent, aggression and deliberate unsporting behaviour at a young age than at an older age. Taking all things into consideration, of course.
 
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