Ref4Me

Open Age Jewellery Check

SurreyWolves

Premium Member
Premium Member
Level 6 Referee
I tend to try and catch them warming up and have a quick ‘no jewellery folks’ and ask if anyone with real studs pop over and let me check they’re not deadly weapons.

Takes a few moments and also they tend to like the gesture that we care!
 
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Referoo

New Member
Level 6 Referee
Not surprised some seem baffled. I'd guess you're probably the only ref they have that does that.

I'd never do anything like that.

1. They're not really listening, they just want to get on with the game, (and since when has anything a referee has said along those lines before a game ever made a blind bit of difference to how they behave once the whistle goes anyway?).

2. It's more likely to irritate the players and as a referee, single me out as some sort of officious "jobsworth" before the match even starts. :wtf:

Remember, the sad fact is that most players view a referee as something akin to a failed copper or a wannabe traffic warden. Sad but true. I'd never do anything that help perpetuate or reinforce that view. ;)

Just my own opinion obviously .... :cool:
Kes, you'd be surprised to find out that players do listen. Especially when it comes to offensive language. They're the ones pointing out throughout the game that I shouldn't allow to some player talking to me like that, or to the opposition, cAR, etc...

I have been assessed recently and the assessor mentioned that he liked the way I briefed the players, checked their equipment, the way I've dealt with dissent/offensive language.

I also know someone who has done literally the opposite, not bothering with anything like that and said that he is a big boy and his tolerance levels in regards to dissent and offensive language are quite high. The marks he received from the assessor were below standard expected. Shame, as overall he's had a pretty good game, but his tolerance levels let him down.

Recently I've had a game where I decided to experiment a little bit. So, I didn't "line them up", just checked their equipment and for jewellery as they were coming out. Spoke briefly to the captains at the toss, not reciting my usual "poem".

As I expected, very little respect towards each other and some dissent which ended up with Sin Bins and a dismissal right at the end for the captain of the winning team who used offensive language towards an opponent.
His reply was:"But I didn't swear at you ref!"
Mine was:"You shouldn't use that sort of language towards anyone."

Just that sort of things I would normally cover in my prematch briefing. It just proved again that not setting any expectations you'll just make your game rather difficult.

It also seemed that you had a go at me pretty much, but it's not something I am not expecting. You're probably one of these people turning up at games telling other referees what they're doing wrong, just because you're a referee too and you know better...

I'd love to come and see one of your games...
 

Kes

I'll Decide ...
Level 5 Referee
Kes, you'd be surprised to find out that players do listen. Especially when it comes to offensive language. They're the ones pointing out throughout the game that I shouldn't allow to some player talking to me like that, or to the opposition, cAR, etc...
I don't think I'd be surprised at all. Having been a referee myself for around 10 years now, I fancy I know what the players need and want from me. It certainly isn't a pre-match lecture.
I have been assessed recently and the assessor mentioned that he liked the way I briefed the players, checked their equipment, the way I've dealt with dissent/offensive language.
Well done you. As an Observer (not Assessor ;)) myself, it's not something I'd be looking at, outside of pre-match equipment checks. It's what you do after the first whistle that counts.
I also know someone who has done literally the opposite, not bothering with anything like that and said that he is a big boy and his tolerance levels in regards to dissent and offensive language are quite high. The marks he received from the assessor were below standard expected. Shame, as overall he's had a pretty good game, but his tolerance levels let him down.

Recently I've had a game where I decided to experiment a little bit. So, I didn't "line them up", just checked their equipment and for jewellery as they were coming out. Spoke briefly to the captains at the toss, not reciting my usual "poem".

As I expected, very little respect towards each other and some dissent which ended up with Sin Bins and a dismissal right at the end for the captain of the winning team who used offensive language towards an opponent.
His reply was:"But I didn't swear at you ref!"
Mine was:"You shouldn't use that sort of language towards anyone."

Just that sort of things I would normally cover in my prematch briefing. It just proved again that not setting any expectations you'll just make your game rather difficult.

It also seemed that you had a go at me pretty much, but it's not something I am not expecting. You're probably one of these people turning up at games telling other referees what they're doing wrong, just because you're a referee too and you know better...

I'd love to come and see one of your games...
I simply posted what I believe to be the truth (works for me). What you do is up to you. I certainly wasn't "having a go" at you for sure.
Carry on with your pre-match instruction routine. You're clearly setting out your own stall. Others have posted similar to me so read into that what you will. I shan't rise to the rest of your tetchy response. ... :cool:
 

santa sangria

RefChat Addict
Where are you getting that from? I can't see a single person in this thread suggesting that - so yes, I would advise a beginner ref against that, in the same way I would suggest a beginner ref avoid doing any number of things no one else thinks they should do!

It is mandatory to do a check - and it's advisable to make sure that check is thorough, as it's much better for your match control to tell a player to sort something pre-match than spot it mid-match and have to send them to the side until the next stoppage to correct it. So do what is necessary to be comfortable that you've given yourself every chance of avoiding issues. If you're comfortable doing that with a wander and a glance then sure, if not then take a more active approach and talk to the players and/or go round them while they're warming up.

None of which involves arranging players around the centre circle to give them a grand address...
I am explaining how we do it in <insert Nordic country here>

From a certain level in all age groups there is a ceremonial line up and inspection prior to entering the FoP. At grassroots there is not and it’s a quick visual check for jewelry and shin pads. It’s not ideal but it is the procedure here.
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
Kes, you'd be surprised to find out that players do listen. Especially when it comes to offensive language. They're the ones pointing out throughout the game that I shouldn't allow to some player talking to me like that, or to the opposition, cAR, etc...

I have been assessed recently and the assessor mentioned that he liked the way I briefed the players, checked their equipment, the way I've dealt with dissent/offensive language.

I also know someone who has done literally the opposite, not bothering with anything like that and said that he is a big boy and his tolerance levels in regards to dissent and offensive language are quite high. The marks he received from the assessor were below standard expected. Shame, as overall he's had a pretty good game, but his tolerance levels let him down.

Recently I've had a game where I decided to experiment a little bit. So, I didn't "line them up", just checked their equipment and for jewellery as they were coming out. Spoke briefly to the captains at the toss, not reciting my usual "poem".

As I expected, very little respect towards each other and some dissent which ended up with Sin Bins and a dismissal right at the end for the captain of the winning team who used offensive language towards an opponent.
His reply was:"But I didn't swear at you ref!"
Mine was:"You shouldn't use that sort of language towards anyone."

Just that sort of things I would normally cover in my prematch briefing. It just proved again that not setting any expectations you'll just make your game rather difficult.

It also seemed that you had a go at me pretty much, but it's not something I am not expecting. You're probably one of these people turning up at games telling other referees what they're doing wrong, just because you're a referee too and you know better...

I'd love to come and see one of your games...
Most observers these days would advise you against doing this. You are setting yourself up for a fall, as once you start to talk to them about language the second you don't take action against language, perhaps simply because you didn't hear it, they will be on your back.
 

Max2

Well-Known Member
Level 3 Referee
Most observers these days would advise you against doing this. You are setting yourself up for a fall, as once you start to talk to them about language the second you don't take action against language, perhaps simply because you didn't hear it, they will be on your back.
Overheard the ref on Saturday telling the captains he “had a high tolerance level for dissent”. Went as well as expected.
 

Joshref

Well-Known Member
Level 7 Referee
Kes, you'd be surprised to find out that players do listen. Especially when it comes to offensive language. They're the ones pointing out throughout the game that I shouldn't allow to some player talking to me like that, or to the opposition, cAR, etc...

I have been assessed recently and the assessor mentioned that he liked the way I briefed the players, checked their equipment, the way I've dealt with dissent/offensive language.

I also know someone who has done literally the opposite, not bothering with anything like that and said that he is a big boy and his tolerance levels in regards to dissent and offensive language are quite high. The marks he received from the assessor were below standard expected. Shame, as overall he's had a pretty good game, but his tolerance levels let him down.

Recently I've had a game where I decided to experiment a little bit. So, I didn't "line them up", just checked their equipment and for jewellery as they were coming out. Spoke briefly to the captains at the toss, not reciting my usual "poem".

As I expected, very little respect towards each other and some dissent which ended up with Sin Bins and a dismissal right at the end for the captain of the winning team who used offensive language towards an opponent.
His reply was:"But I didn't swear at you ref!"
Mine was:"You shouldn't use that sort of language towards anyone."

Just that sort of things I would normally cover in my prematch briefing. It just proved again that not setting any expectations you'll just make your game rather difficult.

It also seemed that you had a go at me pretty much, but it's not something I am not expecting. You're probably one of these people turning up at games telling other referees what they're doing wrong, just because you're a referee too and you know better...

I'd love to come and see one of your games...
Weirdly, because in my experience as a player, it’s usually the opposite. Now you are Level 6 so it’s possible you’re reffing a higher level than I play at, so I’m speaking purely grassroots here.

You do the semi circle line up you are screwed. I’ve seen it very often. Every single ref who has ever done that has got players murmuring to both teams before the match - “bloody ref think it’s the Champions League final here.” Last ref we had do it lost all respect before the match. Making us line up and then checking our studs, he was done for. He came across as an over the top over officious *****, which is not the image we want to set.

The refs that have lined players up and given a full recited speech are often the ones who see the worst of dissent, because they have isolated players before the match
 

Referoo

New Member
Level 6 Referee
Funny that, as a few guys here say no one really does that. Decided to experiment last weekend, so just done a boot and jewellery check as they were coming out from changing rooms. No "speech", just a brief few words with the captain after the toss.
Away team winning and with 2 minutes to go, away captain shouts really loud to an opponent:"Get up you effin idiot!"
Lots of children not far from where it happened and a decent crowd.
He got himself sent off. He didn't argue the decision, just walked off. Came to shake my hand after the game saying:"Ref, I didn't swear at you." Told him I knew that, but that sort of language is unacceptable. He also apologised to opponent he addressed like that.

Now, the thing is I would normally address that in a prematch brief, telling them that offensive language won't be tolerated against anyone.
Anyone means:Referee, AR, cAR, opponent, coaches, spectators. And also including towards at teammate. Exactly, including a team-mate.
Last year I've sent off a player that addressed to a teammate with:"Effin greedy pandemic c...!"

After all, we're all different, RESPECT is paramount for me. I go there to do a job and to enjoy what I see as a hobby, not to befriend players.

If other people just turn up at the matches without setting any limits and expectations, their own problem. I do not really care what players would think of me, as I expect in amateur football to be very little respect.
 

GraemeS

RefChat Addict
Level 5 Referee
I mean, I think that possibly requires a different approach because you're applying a non-standard threshold - so it does seem fairer to explain that ahead of the match!
 

RyantheRef

Premium Member
Premium Member
Level 3 Referee
Weirdly, because in my experience as a player, it’s usually the opposite. Now you are Level 6 so it’s possible you’re reffing a higher level than I play at, so I’m speaking purely grassroots here.

You do the semi circle line up you are screwed. I’ve seen it very often. Every single ref who has ever done that has got players murmuring to both teams before the match - “bloody ref think it’s the Champions League final here.” Last ref we had do it lost all respect before the match. Making us line up and then checking our studs, he was done for. He came across as an over the top over officious *****, which is not the image we want to set.

The refs that have lined players up and given a full recited speech are often the ones who see the worst of dissent, because they have isolated players before the match

I would rather be an "over-the-top officious *****" than be the referee who allowed someone to play with dangerous equipment on and injure themselves or someone else because of it. That's what this is about, by the way: player safety.

I'm not sure how this discussion got into the realm of discussing tolerance for dissent or tolerance for abuse; it has naught to do with that and I don't know why you would bring that up during an equipment check anyway. You're there to check to make sure nobody has any dangerous equipment on, and that everyone has the necessary protective gear. I'm not likely to pull someone up at grassroots for incorrect socks or the wrong colour shorts; but I am going to check for jewelry, dangerous studs, and anything else that might endanger the player or their opponents. Every single time.
 

Joshref

Well-Known Member
Level 7 Referee
I would rather be an "over-the-top officious *****" than be the referee who allowed someone to play with dangerous equipment on and injure themselves or someone else because of it. That's what this is about, by the way: player safety.

I'm not sure how this discussion got into the realm of discussing tolerance for dissent or tolerance for abuse; it has naught to do with that and I don't know why you would bring that up during an equipment check anyway. You're there to check to make sure nobody has any dangerous equipment on, and that everyone has the necessary protective gear. I'm not likely to pull someone up at grassroots for incorrect socks or the wrong colour shorts; but I am going to check for jewelry, dangerous studs, and anything else that might endanger the player or their opponents. Every single time.
Player safety is key of course, you phrase it like I explicitly state we should just do no checks. As someone who mostly does junior games, I can back up that player safety has to be the emphasis.

In what you quoted, I’m just stating facts. If you do the whole semi circle line up, youre going to come across as an over the top officious so and so. At grassroots and junior football. And that’s coming from personal experience as a player. I personally had no problem with what the ref did, but he had lost the players respect early on.

I wasnt the first person bring up dissent, and you seem to have misinterpreted my reply. The person I was quoting was talking about their pre match routine and how that worked, I observed as a player the opposite was true.

If you’re fine with coming across as that sort of ref, I fail to see why it’s a problem?
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
Funny that, as a few guys here say no one really does that. Decided to experiment last weekend, so just done a boot and jewellery check as they were coming out from changing rooms. No "speech", just a brief few words with the captain after the toss.
Away team winning and with 2 minutes to go, away captain shouts really loud to an opponent:"Get up you effin idiot!"
Lots of children not far from where it happened and a decent crowd.
He got himself sent off. He didn't argue the decision, just walked off. Came to shake my hand after the game saying:"Ref, I didn't swear at you." Told him I knew that, but that sort of language is unacceptable. He also apologised to opponent he addressed like that.

Now, the thing is I would normally address that in a prematch brief, telling them that offensive language won't be tolerated against anyone.
Anyone means:Referee, AR, cAR, opponent, coaches, spectators. And also including towards at teammate. Exactly, including a team-mate.
Last year I've sent off a player that addressed to a teammate with:"Effin greedy pandemic c...!"

After all, we're all different, RESPECT is paramount for me. I go there to do a job and to enjoy what I see as a hobby, not to befriend players.

If other people just turn up at the matches without setting any limits and expectations, their own problem. I do not really care what players would think of me, as I expect in amateur football to be very little respect.
Do you really think he would have thought "hang on a minute, referee told us not to swear"? Not a chance 90+ minutes after when you told him.

If you are in England I'd respecfully suggest you might need to increase your tolerance level a bit otherwise you are going to have a lot of red cards and you will start to get a reputation. Seen it happen many times, clubs force leagues hands and insist they don't use referees who are issuing way more OFFINABUS red cards than anyone else. I've even seen a RefsSec voted out at an AGM as he refused to stop using one particular notorious referee.
 

RyantheRef

Premium Member
Premium Member
Level 3 Referee
Do you really think he would have thought "hang on a minute, referee told us not to swear"? Not a chance 90+ minutes after when you told him.

If you are in England I'd respecfully suggest you might need to increase your tolerance level a bit otherwise you are going to have a lot of red cards and you will start to get a reputation. Seen it happen many times, clubs force leagues hands and insist they don't use referees who are issuing way more OFFINABUS red cards than anyone else. I've even seen a RefsSec voted out at an AGM as he refused to stop using one particular notorious referee.

Then ask yourself whether that's a league you want to officiate on. Respectfully, I would rather not.
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
Then ask yourself whether that's a league you want to officiate on. Respectfully, I would rather not.
That doesn't work if you run out of leagues though. Clubs hold the power in England, if enough league members want rid of a referee he will be got rid of.
 

RyantheRef

Premium Member
Premium Member
Level 3 Referee
That doesn't work if you run out of leagues though. Clubs hold the power in England, if enough league members want rid of a referee he will be got rid of.
We had one league last year that nobody wanted to officiate because all of the teams were a pain to deal with. I took three games on the league and told the assignor I didn't want anymore and I was, I kid you not, the last referee that would do a game. The assignor told them that they couldn't have any referees any more and unless their behaviour changed. I did the next match, and behaviour was very good.
 

RustyRef

Administrator
Staff member
We had one league last year that nobody wanted to officiate because all of the teams were a pain to deal with. I took three games on the league and told the assignor I didn't want anymore and I was, I kid you not, the last referee that would do a game. The assignor told them that they couldn't have any referees any more and unless their behaviour changed. I did the next match, and behaviour was very good.
That is a lot different though, that is all referees making a stand. As opposed to one referee sticking his head above the parapet and getting it shot off, which is exactly what happens to sole crusaders trying to rid bad language from the game. As I said, I've seen it happen so many times over the years.
 
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