RefSix

JAM ITA penalty mess

Yampy

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
without spectators, football is nothing. the authorities would do well to recognise that in many aspects of the 'fan experience' and VAR is one of them
Wrong, so very wrong. The number of games of football played in front of next to no spectators far outnumbers the number of games played in front of a 'crowd'.
Aside from health and safety, the Laws are there for the game not, the spectators.
 

es1

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
Wrong, so very wrong. The number of games of football played in front of next to no spectators far outnumbers the number of games played in front of a 'crowd'.
Aside from health and safety, the Laws are there for the game not, the spectators.
we're talking about VAR here and the pro game, dont see VAR down the parks
 

Bromleyref

New Member
Wrong, so very wrong. The number of games of football played in front of next to no spectators far outnumbers the number of games played in front of a 'crowd'.
Aside from health and safety, the Laws are there for the game not, the spectators.
But VAR is not being implemented in games played in front of next to no spectators, hence the concern about how it will affect the spectators' experience is a valid one.
 

Peter Grove

RefChat Addict
I also think the system used in the FA Cup (VAR makes the call rather than referee reviewing on a monitor) works far better.
That was not "the system used in the FA Cup." The FA Cup used the same VAR Protocol that is, and must be used in all competitions worldwide. If they didn't, they would never have been granted permission by the IFAB to use VAR in the first place. Under that single and universal protocol the VAR cannot make any decision, they can only pass on information to the referee.
 

es1

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
forgive me if i'm not understanding the protocol correctly, but wolves v man united, ref overturned his red card with a yellow on VAR advice without consulting the video. this is against IFAB protocol isn't it?
 

Bromleyref

New Member
That was not "the system used in the FA Cup." The FA Cup used the same VAR Protocol that is, and must be used in all competitions worldwide. If they didn't, they would never have been granted permission by the IFAB to use VAR in the first place. Under that single and universal protocol the VAR cannot make any decision, they can only pass on information to the referee.
Crystal Palace v Grimsby third round, Martin Atkinson cautions a Grimsby player for a challenge and then following consultation with VAR sends the player off.

Irrespective of the technicalities (regarding what was said between the officials etc) I fail to see how that is not the VAR effectively making the decision.
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
forgive me if i'm not understanding the protocol correctly, but wolves v man united, ref overturned his red card with a yellow on VAR advice without consulting the video. this is against IFAB protocol isn't it?
No. But it would be against recommended process if I recall correctly
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
It’s happened again, but this time seemingly incorrectly! France v Nigeria last night

Penalty taker hits the post and it’s retaken as the keeper came off the line. However, the striker missed without keeper intervention
You think so? To drive the point, if the keeper comes out 6 yards to close the angle and the striker goes wide without keeper touching the ball, would you call the a miss without keeper intervention?
 

cwyeary

RefChat Addict
No. But it would be against recommended process if I recall correctly
The protocol does give a little leeway in not doing an on field review.

For subjective decisions, e.g. intensity of a foul challenge, interference at
offside, handball considerations, an ‘on-field review’ (OFR) is often
appropriate
I suppose this opens up situations where the referee could give a yellow card and tell the VAR that they saw the studs go into the foot. The VAR says "actually the studs went into the middle of the shin" and the referee says "okay, then it's a red card" and change the decision without looking at the monitor.

But this supposed FA Cup/Premier League method of never having an on field review does not match up with the protocol and would almost certainly lead to issues. There will be situations where the referee will simply want to see the video.
 

QuaverRef

I used to be indecisive but now i'm not so sure
Level 5 Referee
You think so? To drive the point, if the keeper comes out 6 yards to close the angle and the striker goes wide without keeper touching the ball, would you call the a miss without keeper intervention?
That didn’t happen though. This was barely an inch off the line
 

zarathustra

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
Crystal Palace v Grimsby third round, Martin Atkinson cautions a Grimsby player for a challenge and then following consultation with VAR sends the player off.

Irrespective of the technicalities (regarding what was said between the officials etc) I fail to see how that is not the VAR effectively making the decision.
There is a massive difference between VAR making the decision and VAR telling the referee that they think the challenge was worthy of a red because of X y z and the referee deciding to upgrade to a red card based on the information provided by VAR.
 

cwyeary

RefChat Addict
i dont like the review, but it's 100% correct. i just wonder where you draw the line...will every pen be analysed in microscopic detail like offsides to determine encroachment / keeper off line?
That appears to be the standard applied here. If you can see a player was an inch offside then VAR will rule out the goal. If you can tell the GK was an inch off the line, it appears VAR will order a retake. There's no 'close enough' with those types of factual decisions.

same with encroachment from free kicks?
Thankfully this doesn't fall within VARs scope so we're free from that type of craziness.
 

zarathustra

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
That appears to be the standard applied here. If you can see a player was an inch offside then VAR will rule out the goal. If you can tell the GK was an inch off the line, it appears VAR will order a retake. There's no 'close enough' with those types of factual decisions.



Thankfully this doesn't fall within VARs scope so we're free from that type of craziness.
VAR does not rule out anything, they inform the infield referee, and they make the decision.
 

es1

RefChat Addict
Level 4 Referee
That appears to be the standard applied here. If you can see a player was an inch offside then VAR will rule out the goal. If you can tell the GK was an inch off the line, it appears VAR will order a retake. There's no 'close enough' with those types of factual decisions.



Thankfully this doesn't fall within VARs scope so we're free from that type of craziness.
if it encourages keepers to stick to the rules, great, cant see that being a bad thing long term. the next keeper facing a pen in the world cup would be a fool to come of their line.

i'd like to see this enforced in the U21 euros as well then, really hammer it home even though there's no VAR. i wont hold me breath though
 

zarathustra

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
Yes I'm aware. Apologies for the lack of perfectly precise language.
It's not about being "perfectly precise" it is about being factually correct.

By saying that VAR rules out goals etc you are giving them powers which they do not possess under the current laws, and perpetuating the inaccuracies that surround the entire process.
 

zarathustra

RefChat Addict
Level 6 Referee
I thin VAR should just use the big screen (where available) to review decisions.

It works very well in rugby, and then everyone can see what the referee is seeing. It wod add anymore time time into the process than the referee going to a monitor at the side of the pitch.
 

one

RefChat Addict
Level 7 Referee
That didn’t happen though. This was barely an inch off the line
What if it was 6 inches or a foot? One yard? Two yards? Where do you draw the line? For me it's simple. The goal line IS the line.

"It was barely..." Is what has got us to this mess we are in right now with encroachments.
 

cwyeary

RefChat Addict
What if it was 6 inches or a foot? One yard? Two yards? Where do you draw the line? For me it's simple. The goal line IS the line.

"It was barely..." Is what has got us to this mess we are in right now with encroachments.
The same thing with offside. Can we tell if the player was in an offside position? Yes or no. If the answer is yes then an inch, a foot, or a yard doesn't matter. Once you try to start applying a subjective standard you will have even more issues.
 
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