The Ref Stop

I Got The Ball Ref

The Ref Stop
one said:
You are saying it's either fair or reckless+. It is accepted in football that actions go from fair to careless to reckless and the UEF in a sliding scale.
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An awful lot of energy has been expended in this thread arguing with things I haven't said.

Of course a tackle can be fair, careless, reckless or serious foul play. I use my rule of thumb to determine which it is (or in this case which it isn't).
 
I had teacher of coaches ask me how I would get a foul from a challenge where the ball was touched first.

Being at the soccer field, with balls and a few players, I did some demonstrations.

I take the player A who got the ball first and they lie on the ground.

I take player B and I say:
Player B is right here when ball is touched. Direction of A is going through B. Foul by A

Player B is right here, before the space A occupies. B trips over A as the continue their run. No foul.

Player B has no chance to get ball first, but decides to step where the ball would have been if A hadn't got it first and A goes through them. (Sometimes referred to as 'being late')
Dangerous play or a foul committed by B.

From behind is really a hard trick to pull off. From the front (typically I see with GK) is a matter of force.

I'll add, I also suggest watching the tacklers legs. Are they straight the whole time? Do they get ball and immediately tuck the legs/feet? Do they try to keep cleats down?

I was taught: doubtful, trivial, careless, reckless, and SFP.

Similar to topic, player goes straight up for a header vs opponent going up and forward. Straight up and forward gets ball first, and then lands on the opponents head or flips over them. Bloody dangerous.
 
Trip said:
If you get the ball first it's not careless. The whole aim of a tackle is to get the ball.
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Trip said:
Of course a tackle can be fair, careless, reckless or serious foul play.
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It's the first post I am disagreeing with. The second post I wholeheartedly agree with (regardless of getting the ball first).

All I am asking for is not to rule out 'careless' (or 'vanishingly rare' them 🙂) because they get the ball first. If that is the case then we are in agreement.
 
one said:
All I am asking for is not to rule out 'careless' (or 'vanishingly rare' them 🙂) because they get the ball first. If that is the case then we are in agreement.
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Well, I'm yet to be convinced. I'd be genuinely interested to see an example.
 
Trip said:
Well, I'm yet to be convinced. I'd be genuinely interested to see an example.
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Not too many highlights out there containing careless tackles. But I'd be sure to remember this when I am watching live games.
 
@Trip No clip I am afraid and can't upload the vid from my phone but Fred on Jiminez, wins ball first, careless foul.

Edit: turned viedro to gif which should work.
 

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JamesL said:
@Trip No clip I am afraid and can't upload the vid from my phone but Fred on Jiminez, wins ball first, careless foul.

Edit: turned viedro to gif which should work.
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Great clip James! Some might argue that this tips over into reckless but for me it's a perfect example of where a fair challenge on the ball becomes simply a careless foul because of the follow through
 
Is this even a tackle? Neither player is in possession. They both go for a loose ball and if there's any contact at all it's because the player in yellow gets there after the ball has gone.

Which game is this from, is there a way of getting more context?
 
Trip said:
Is this even a tackle? Neither player is in possession. They both go for a loose ball and if there's any contact at all it's because the player in yellow gets there after the ball has gone.

Which game is this from, is there a way of getting more context?
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"Tackle" does not matter. Its challenges C/R/UEF.

Man u V wolves at the weekend. The only game I watched.

United on the ropes with wolves the better side, but no contentious (contended) decisions at this point...
 
Trip said:
Is this even a tackle? Neither player is in possession. They both go for a loose ball and if there's any contact at all it's because the player in yellow gets there after the ball has gone.
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You don't half come out with some odd assertions - certainly on this thread you have anyway ... 😳🤔
 
JamesL said:
"Tackle" does not matter. Its challenges C/R/UEF.
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It matters in this context because the rule of thumb I use, which has caused all this consternation, is one I apply to determine if there has been a foul tackle. If it's not a tackle then my rule of thumb does not apply.

I'll see if I can find the incident, can you remember roughly when in the match it was?
 
Trip said:
It matters in this context because the rule of thumb I use, which has caused all this consternation, is one I apply to determine if there has been a foul tackle. If it's not a tackle then my rule of thumb does not apply.

I'll see if I can find the incident, can you remember roughly when in the match it was?
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Two players challenging for the ball appears to meet the criteria for "a tackle".
When one plays the ball and his follow through results in him kicking the opponent, that satisfies the need for a free kick for (in this case) kicking an opponent carelessly.
 
ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
When one plays the ball and his follow through results in him kicking the opponent, that satisfies the need for a free kick for (in this case) kicking an opponent carelessly.
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If it's a kick then that's a separate offence. It's not a foul tackle. So my rule of thumb would not apply.
 
As others have said, it's always going to be a "you had to be there" type of situation. But here is one specific type of example.

Defender comes in with a slide tackle and wins the ball in a manner that initially appears to not be careless/reckless/using excessive force.

Situation 1 - The attacker continues forward momentum and falls over the outstretched leg the defender used to win the ball. All else equal, this is not a foul in my opinion.

Situation 2 - The defender makes contact with part of the attacker's body with a part of the defender's body that isn't the outstretched leg that wins the ball. In my opinion, all else equal this is a foul and you start to apply your CRUEF criteria. Yes, the defender won the ball, but he clearly makes contact with the attacker in a manner that wasn't part of winning the ball.

We even had a play last week in a game where I was AR and the center and I called a foul on a defender when he didn't make contact. Defender comes in pretty hard and forces the attacker to jump out of the way. The attacker loses any forward momentum. I flag for the foul, and the center agrees. The defender was beside himself that we called a foul, but he accepted the call after the explanation. (What I didn't tell him was that it very likely would have been a caution if he had made contact. The lack of contact at the U14 level brought it down to a very strong word about always playing in control).
 
JamesL said:
Definition of tackle is challenges for the ball with the foot....
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Yes, and if there's a kick it's a foul. But the offence is kicking, not a foul tackle. I'm only talking about judging foul tackles (not kicks, or trips, etc)
 
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