The Ref Stop

I found him... LWR!!

Ben448844 said:
They'll happily pay £30 just to have a referee in many of the lower leagues in the UK. Alot more. All referees have qualified, but the truth of the matter is that some refs have no interest in the law changes or promotions etc, they simply do it as a hobby and to keep league's they once played in going. They're good guys and they're essential at the bottom of the pyramid.

Don't get me wrong, I wish that there was a surplus of refs and then there could be measures implemented to ensure that all refs maintain good knowledge of the laws but it's not realistic. Fortunately, most of the players/manager don't know any new laws either at dog and duck. At that level, it's the worst players with the worst referees (in theory), but they're all staying involved in the game which is the most important thing.
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Sorry, but if they don't have any interest in law changes they shouldn't be refereeing competitive matches.

I'm sure the club's that get relegated, or kicked out of a cup because John Smith wanted to referee but was too lazy to read the laws won't mind because he's turned up and charged them £30 for the privilege.
 
The Ref Stop
RobOda said:
Waive the fee if they pass the exam then?
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I wasn't suggesting a fee for the exam, rather that teams can either pay a full match fee to a referee who has taken the test, or pay half a match fee to a referee who has registered but couldn't be bothered to take the test.
 
zarathustra said:
Sorry, but if they don't have any interest in law changes they shouldn't be refereeing competitive matches.

I'm sure the club's that get relegated, or kicked out of a cup because John Smith wanted to referee but was too lazy to read the laws won't mind because he's turned up and charged them £30 for the privilege.
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Do you honestly believe that teams that struggle to get refs are bothered whether the ref is upto speed or not when given the choice of that or no ref at all? I can assure you that given the choice they'd choose to play the game every single time. They just want to play football
 
Ben448844 said:
Do you honestly believe that teams that struggle to get refs are bothered whether the ref is upto speed or not when given the choice of that or no ref at all? I can assure you that given the choice they'd choose to play the game every single time. They just want to play football
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Oh, so they don't care when a referee costs the game through being incorrect in law?

Possibly causing them to miss out on promotion, or getting relegated or kicked out of cup competitions?

If they don't care about any of that why do they care about whether they have a qualified ref or not?

If it's just a hobby and they want to play football anyone with a whistle will do.
 
zarathustra said:
Oh, so they don't care when a referee costs the game through being incorrect in law?

Possibly causing them to miss out on promotion, or getting relegated or kicked out of cup competitions?

If they don't care about any of that why do they care about whether they have a qualified ref or not?

If it's just a hobby and they want to play football anyone with a whistle will do.
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They want to play. I played in alot of teams and with alot of players. I can't think of a single player or manager who didn't want to play because the ref wasn't upto speed at the bottom levels (and most of them aren't, half of them don't even break into a jog and will have no idea on the new handball interpretstions). But I speak with absolute confidence and experience that the game is more important than the ref being upto speed with the modern laws. Do you honestly believe that this isn't the case?
 
Ben448844 said:
They want to play. I played in alot of teams and with alot of players. I can't think of a single player or manager who didn't want to play because the ref wasn't upto speed at the bottom levels (and most of them aren't, half of them don't even break into a jog and will have no idea on the new handball interpretstions). But I speak with absolute confidence and experience that the game is more important than the ref being upto speed with the modern laws. Do you honestly believe that this isn't the case?
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You are completely (and most likely intentionally) missing my point.

If you are correct and teams don't care whether a referee knows the laws of the game, then it doesn't matter if they have a qualified referee.

There is little difference between between a referee who hasn't read the laws in 10 years and someone who has never qualified as a referee but watches a lot of football.
 
zarathustra said:
You are completely (and most likely intentionally) missing my point.

If you are correct and teams don't care whether a referee knows the laws of the game, then it doesn't matter if they have a qualified referee.

There is little difference between between a referee who hasn't read the laws in 10 years and someone who has never qualified as a referee but watches a lot of football.
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That's simply not true at all. They may not be well versed in some of the new interpretations of law but they're got experience. Many of these refs may be poor in their knowledge of modern law, but they can handle players and game management. There are plenty of qualified refs who know the LOTG inside out but are scared of their own shadows. These refs are a bigger issue to player safety etc than someone who's unsure of the latest handball interpretation.
 
Ben448844 said:
That's simply not true at all. They may not be well versed in some of the new interpretations of law but they're got experience. Many of these refs may be poor in their knowledge of modern law, but they can handle players and game management. There are plenty of qualified refs who know the LOTG inside out but are scared of their own shadows. These refs are a bigger issue to player safety etc than someone who's unsure of the latest handball interpretation.
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It is absolutely true, the whole reason for a referee is that they correctly apply the laws of the game.

If you don't care about the laws being correctly applied then you don't need a referee, anyone with a whistle will do.

Referees who can't be bothered to stay upto date on the laws but turn out every weekend are in it for the money, and the money alone. If they cared about being good at what they do they'd be able to go on the internet, or pick up a copy of the lotg.
 
zarathustra said:
If you don't care about the laws being correctly applied then you don't need a referee, anyone with a whistle will do.
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While I’m strongly in favor of refs being up to speed, it’s more important to many that the ref be able to manage the game and keep it under control than know every nuance. I’ve seen many refs make mistakes of Law that made me cringe, but still manage the game in a way the players found fair that kept things under control. That’s the benefit you get from a qualified but out of date ref as opposed to just someone in a black shirt. It’s tough to raise standards when there is already a shortage.
 
There are referees who have no internet access and so miss out on most updates, which could explain why they are unaware of law changes. I am aware of 3 I have come across this season, all good referees who have been promoted many years ago. They register each season manually and still submit cautions and dismissals paper based. They pick up law changes by word of mouth by talking to other referees.
 
socal lurker said:
While I’m strongly in favor of refs being up to speed, it’s more important to many that the ref be able to manage the game and keep it under control than know every nuance. I’ve seen many refs make mistakes of Law that made me cringe, but still manage the game in a way the players found fair that kept things under control. That’s the benefit you get from a qualified but out of date ref as opposed to just someone in a black shirt. It’s tough to raise standards when there is already a shortage.
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I'm not talking about referees knowing every nuance of the laws, this is grass roots not semi pro etc.

But every referee should know that the goal kick has changed for example.

I'm not saying every referee should be PL standard, but they should at least be aware of changes
 
happy whistler said:
There are referees who have no internet access and so miss out on most updates, which could explain why they are unaware of law changes. I am aware of 3 I have come across this season, all good referees who have been promoted many years ago. They register each season manually and still submit cautions and dismissals paper based. They pick up law changes by word of mouth by talking to other referees.
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...and they liase with clubs and leagues...how?
 
Ben448844 said:
That's simply not true at all. They may not be well versed in some of the new interpretations of law but they're got experience. Many of these refs may be poor in their knowledge of modern law, but they can handle players and game management. There are plenty of qualified refs who know the LOTG inside out but are scared of their own shadows. These refs are a bigger issue to player safety etc than someone who's unsure of the latest handball interpretation.
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You can't reason with @zarathustra (circa 14 posts on the subject, all saying the same thing). Just let it go and be thankful your paths only crossed on a forum. Seen it many times on here with other members before
Participation beats all arguments
 
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happy whistler said:
There are referees who have no internet access and so miss out on most updates, which could explain why they are unaware of law changes. I am aware of 3 I have come across this season, all good referees who have been promoted many years ago. They register each season manually and still submit cautions and dismissals paper based. They pick up law changes by word of mouth by talking to other referees.
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While there are people out there who don't have internet access they are, in my experience, the exception rather than the rule.

Perhaps I am being unfair on this particular subsection of referees, but my personal experience of them has been 100% bad.

They are normally the ones who turn up 10 minutes before kick off, no pitch inspection or kit checks, 90 minutes wandering around the pitch doing their best to avoid any difficult decisions whilst simultaneously confusing all the players.

They are also the referees who come out with random things they've clearly made up as well. I know of a referee who cautioned a player for wearing one glove. And I've posted before about a referee who was happy for people to play with earrings in but would t let a sub play because they had pockets in their shorts.

I've seen my wife's team have some shocking referees, and they don't finish the game with smiles, normally they're looking confused because they've got no idea what the referee was doing, and they're angry that they have to pay the referee for the privilege.

Maybe I'm old fashioned, but if I was a player paying someone to referee a game of football I'd expect them to at least know the laws of the game.
 
For me LWR is less about the type in the OP. It's more about those who knowingly not apply or misapply the lotg because it is easier for them. They also know what they do makes it harder for the referees who would like to apply the laws correctly. For example allow players wearing jewellery.
 
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