A&H

How Much are Your Ref's Fees?

ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
For those aged 14 or 15, the maximum age of players they can referee is laid down, so they get appropriate games.
The post-Covid period has seen some of the more capable referees in open age football being asked to do games which stretch them, producing a make or break situation in some cases.
One of the issues we face is young referees going into mini soccer and staying there rather than moving into youth football - IMHO it's more important to have sufficient referees to cover most Youth League games than having qualified officials on Under-9's. Sometimes it's the referee's comfort zone which inhibits a move to youth football, sadly it is sometimes Appointment Officers encouraging young referees to stay with mini soccer.
We will continue to recruit, train and develop match officials, but as Rusty says we are currently catching up, which will take a few months yet.
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I think the ones who stick with mini soccer are the ones in it for the money. I struggle to believe that anyone referees these age groups because they enjoy refereeing
 
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James P said:
I think the ones who stick with mini soccer are the ones in it for the money. I struggle to believe that anyone referees these age groups because they enjoy refereeing
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I tend to agree with that...but in my area an 11 a side game pays double a mini soccer game. I realise two mini soccer games can get you the same fees but there arent always two games to ref.
 
James P said:
Does anyone know what the average retention rate is for new referees
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No idea on the number but it is certainly dreadful. Tell my story of woe on here enough to bore everyone to tears but I was one of only three adults in a group of 50 new recruits in my course. The majority of people on there were young footballers of GCSE age or below who were obviously solely there as they could do it for there Duke of Edinburgh award. For those out of the UK, that's an outdoor pursuit award lots of kids do in this country, which used to be confined to camping in the woods etc but has become broader to keep it going.

Most of the people there only wanted to play football during the course and saw the officiating part as an annoyance. The tutors assigned most of the people there to the local youth league to get games and I heard nothing and had to go to another county to get games in the adult Sunday league so I could qualify as they were prioritising these kids, almost all of which were never going to become referees.

4 weeks later I have that league secretary ringing me as he's short of refs. During our discussion it became apparent that almost all of his new refs had left in the first 4 weeks and he was shorter than ever. That probably gives you a decent guide as to why retention is so poor. Alot of referee students actually have no intention of becoming referees. The FA shouldn't allow DoE students to do courses (I assume it's for income that they do). I'd young people want to become refs then target junior clubs who have excess players, particularly those in the bottom leagues.

When I did the Futsal course it was exactly the same. 10 of us there. 4 of which were put through by their club for free. All good footballers, all with terrible attitudes and absolute 0 intention of refereeing. And one chap who clearly did want to be a referee who I'd describe as a bit quirky, but that's another story 😁
 
Ben448844 said:
No idea on the number but it is certainly dreadful. Tell my story of woe on here enough to bore everyone to tears but I was one of only three adults in a group of 50 new recruits in my course. The majority of people on there were young footballers of GCSE age or below who were obviously solely there as they could do it for there Duke of Edinburgh award. For those out of the UK, that's an outdoor pursuit award lots of kids do in this country, which used to be confined to camping in the woods etc but has become broader to keep it going.

Most of the people there only wanted to play football during the course and saw the officiating part as an annoyance. The tutors assigned most of the people there to the local youth league to get games and I heard nothing and had to go to another county to get games in the adult Sunday league so I could qualify as they were prioritising these kids, almost all of which were never going to become referees.

4 weeks later I have that league secretary ringing me as he's short of refs. During our discussion it became apparent that almost all of his new refs had left in the first 4 weeks and he was shorter than ever. That probably gives you a decent guide as to why retention is so poor. Alot of referee students actually have no intention of becoming referees. The FA shouldn't allow DoE students to do courses (I assume it's for income that they do). I'd young people want to become refs then target junior clubs who have excess players, particularly those in the bottom leagues.

When I did the Futsal course it was exactly the same. 10 of us there. 4 of which were put through by their club for free. All good footballers, all with terrible attitudes and absolute 0 intention of refereeing. And one chap who clearly did want to be a referee who I'd describe as a bit quirky, but that's another story 😁
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I did my refereeing course similar time to my coaching course. On the reffing course, about everyone was under 18. On the coaching course, I was the only U18! The point I bring it up is we did something on there about young referees (I would guess as part of the safeguarding part but I can’t remember for certain.)

On that, they talked about retention rate for young referees. They said of 30 U18 referees on a course, only 3 we’re still refereeing a year afterwards. I’m not sure how true it is because it does seem awfully low, but it was the FA who said it. And I guess when I read your story, it does sort of make sense that so many could drop out.

Although I’ll be honest, I was gonna do the reffing course for my DofE. The coaching course happened first, that’s the only reason I did coaching for my DofE instead of reffing. I had an interest in doing both courses regardless, but it worked in a good timeframe so I put it in my DofE skills section.
 
Joshref said:
I did my refereeing course similar time to my coaching course. On the reffing course, about everyone was under 18. On the coaching course, I was the only U18! The point I bring it up is we did something on there about young referees (I would guess as part of the safeguarding part but I can’t remember for certain.)

On that, they talked about retention rate for young referees. They said of 30 U18 referees on a course, only 3 we’re still refereeing a year afterwards. I’m not sure how true it is because it does seem awfully low, but it was the FA who said it. And I guess when I read your story, it does sort of make sense that so many could drop out.

Although I’ll be honest, I was gonna do the reffing course for my DofE. The coaching course happened first, that’s the only reason I did coaching for my DofE instead of reffing. I had an interest in doing both courses regardless, but it worked in a good timeframe so I put it in my DofE skills section.
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I suppose that backs my point. Those that want to become referees will sign up for the course off their own back. The idea that people will choose the course because its easier and more football related than other DoE options and then suddenly develop a love of refereeing over playing or other weekends activities is pretty fanciful. But I think its probably a good income source for the FA but very little help if any for referee retention.
 
Ben448844 said:
No idea on the number but it is certainly dreadful. Tell my story of woe on here enough to bore everyone to tears but I was one of only three adults in a group of 50 new recruits in my course. The majority of people on there were young footballers of GCSE age or below who were obviously solely there as they could do it for there Duke of Edinburgh award. For those out of the UK, that's an outdoor pursuit award lots of kids do in this country, which used to be confined to camping in the woods etc but has become broader to keep it going.

Most of the people there only wanted to play football during the course and saw the officiating part as an annoyance. The tutors assigned most of the people there to the local youth league to get games and I heard nothing and had to go to another county to get games in the adult Sunday league so I could qualify as they were prioritising these kids, almost all of which were never going to become referees.

4 weeks later I have that league secretary ringing me as he's short of refs. During our discussion it became apparent that almost all of his new refs had left in the first 4 weeks and he was shorter than ever. That probably gives you a decent guide as to why retention is so poor. Alot of referee students actually have no intention of becoming referees. The FA shouldn't allow DoE students to do courses (I assume it's for income that they do). I'd young people want to become refs then target junior clubs who have excess players, particularly those in the bottom leagues.

When I did the Futsal course it was exactly the same. 10 of us there. 4 of which were put through by their club for free. All good footballers, all with terrible attitudes and absolute 0 intention of refereeing. And one chap who clearly did want to be a referee who I'd describe as a bit quirky, but that's another story 😁
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On courses in England, we seldom see Duke of Edinburgh Award people these days, partly because the course cost has risen a lot recently. In my county we have had one in 18 months (and he is still refereeing in youth football a year later)
The new requirement is an online test, on which the learner has to achieve 100% before taking the necessary steps re Child Protection and then attending a two-day course, followed by refereeing five games at a specified level.
Only then are they registered as referees.
At the end of the 2 days, the local Appointment Secretaries are invited, to allow the new referees to ask questions and sign up with their chosen league(s)
As it is only 9 months since the new sryle was introduced, we won't have retention figures just yet, but early indications are favourable.
 
ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
On courses in England, we seldom see Duke of Edinburgh Award people these days, partly because the course cost has risen a lot recently. In my county we have had one in 18 months (and he is still refereeing in youth football a year later)
The new requirement is an online test, on which the learner has to achieve 100% before taking the necessary steps re Child Protection and then attending a two-day course, followed by refereeing five games at a specified level.
Only then are they registered as referees.
At the end of the 2 days, the local Appointment Secretaries are invited, to allow the new referees to ask questions and sign up with their chosen league(s)
As it is only 9 months since the new sryle was introduced, we won't have retention figures just yet, but early indications are favourable.
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That certainly sounds like progress. I can only speak from my experience but it was just incredibly obvious to all concerned that 90% (minimum) of people there were never going to be referees. I felt sorry for the course tutors. Young blokes themselves struggling to control over half of the class who wouldn't shut up or listen in the theory and during the practical solely wanted to play football. Were genuinely annoyed that we were creating situations for refs to practice what they'd learnt rather than have a normal game of football.

I think experienced teachers would've struggled, never mind refs in there early 20s.
 
ChasObserverRefDeveloper said:
On courses in England, we seldom see Duke of Edinburgh Award people these days, partly because the course cost has risen a lot recently. In my county we have had one in 18 months (and he is still refereeing in youth football a year later)
The new requirement is an online test, on which the learner has to achieve 100% before taking the necessary steps re Child Protection and then attending a two-day course, followed by refereeing five games at a specified level.
Only then are they registered as referees.
At the end of the 2 days, the local Appointment Secretaries are invited, to allow the new referees to ask questions and sign up with their chosen league(s)
As it is only 9 months since the new sryle was introduced, we won't have retention figures just yet, but early indications are favourable.
Click to expand...
Where in the country are you Chas?
 
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