The Ref Stop

How can a player get to adult football NOT knowing what dissent is?

deusex

deusex

RefChat Addict
I am f***ing sick of having this conversation:

Player: "Ref, you're having a mare/you're a joke/you're blind"
Me: "Yes please number x"
Player: (Looks incredulous at the appearnace of my notebook) "What are you booking me for?"
Me: "Dissent"
Player: "Dissent of what"
Me: (Trying hard to ignore the fact he doesn't know what dissent means) "Dissent of nothing, just dissent"
Player: "What? I can't say "ref you're having a mare"?"
Me: "Correct"
Player: "I'm entilted to my opinion, you can't book me for my opinion"

At this point I sigh, feel I've gone as far as I can regarding an explanation, and will enter into no further discussion bar the players name.
But how can a grown man who has played in hundreds of matches possibly NOT know that you are, in fact, not allowed to follow the referee around calling him sh*t for 90 mins!!
This "I'm intitled to my opinion, you're oppressing my human rights" generation (my generation in fact) is SOOOO tiring.
It's also clear referees aren't doing their jobs in the other matches. Which is why I have a quite incredible 9 cards in 19 matches. I remember getting to this stage of the season with NO red cards in 2008/09!!
 
The Ref Stop
Couldn't agree more. It's as if we're depriving them of their liberty and stifling free speech!!

Probably doesn't help that dissent is an uncommon English word and therefore easy to mis or not understand (either wilfully or through ignorance). How might we more helpfully rephrase for wider understanding? 'Disagreement with decisions that might undermine the officials' authority'?
 
It's disturbing how often I hear things from people who have been in the game a long, long time that would only make sense if they've never watched a game before.

I remember a local first grade coach telling me there's no such thing as accidental handling in the PA - it's always a PK. Now, he must have seen accidental handling in the PA hundreds of times and not been called - so I really can't explain his viewpoint.

My guess is the player in the OP has been booked plenty of times before for dissent, he just wants to argue the point.
 
I had a great chat with the ref I was working with today, in a particularly mouthy game where there were a few cards for mouthing off which players seemed to think they are entitled to do. Perhaps it would be easier if the conversation went like this...

Player: "You're a joke, ref!"
Ref: "Yes please, over here number 10."
Player: "Why am I being booked?"
Ref: "Because your a mouthy, annoying c**k and I'm sick of you whinging. Off you go, please."

Just an idea ;)
 
I have had two in as many weeks, first one goal keeper picks up a back pass and when I blow he shouts an arrrgghhh and launch's the ball as far as he can off the pitch, I call him over and pull out the yellow to which he says "Oh my god your booking me for time wasting, how can I be wasting time when were losing?". Next one, keeper again funnily enough who asked me why he was being booked and when I told him it was for dissent I was told that I cant because he didn't swear. I told him to google the word dissent after the game and If he could find any mention of swearing then I wouldn't sent it in. ;)
 
I had a goal keeper handle the ball twice and when I gave the IDFK he said I was making it up. I told that is he could prove me wrong before I left the ground I would give him my match fee. As you can guess I didn't see him after the game.
 
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I often find that Over 35 keepers pick it up because they have no idea they can't. Never had anybody try to argue the point though. Weird!!
 
DEUSEX you are averaging 3.5 cards per game. Over half YC's are for dissent. This seems like a lot. I hate dissent and will card for it but maybe because I cover it in my pre match to the teams I avoid a lot of issues on the pitch. Do you give a 1 minute pre KO chat to each team maybe whilst checking studs and jewellery?
 
Anthony said:
DEUSEX you are averaging 3.5 cards per game. Over half YC's are for dissent. This seems like a lot. I hate dissent and will card for it but maybe because I cover it in my pre match to the teams I avoid a lot of issues on the pitch. Do you give a 1 minute pre KO chat to each team maybe whilst checking studs and jewellery?
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Nope. My card count is less than the EPL average (granted it ain't the EPL but it's hardly excessive)
To each their own but I don't talk to teams prematch. They're big boys and know what is and isn't acceptable.
What would you even say? "If you say this I will do this"? That's just backing myself into a corner.
I am refereeing on 3 new leagues this year. I guarantee my card count will be lower next season.
If my cards count is high, it's because too many refs in my county don't sanction OFFINABUS or dissent (I see it every week on other matches)
 
I average a card a game for dissent. And that's being lenient. 3 of my reds have been for OFFINABUS as well.

And its all down to last weeks ref.

Carding high for dissent isn't a sign of a bad ref its a sign that not enough refs are adhering to the laws around dissent and OFFINABUS and after being assaulted by a player a few weeks back it makes me incensed with rage that refs don't do it.
 
Let's be honest everyone on here will talk a good game and answer like they are a walking talking rule book. But in truth when it comes to dissent and bad language I wonder how many get selective hearing.

I'd also say at youth level refs don't crack down enough on things like this. Meaning refs take the laws into their own hands and try to manage things as they are only children. But that only means the players are just learning bad behaviour. There is such a big difference in how referees treat youth football and what age they start treating them like adults that there is no consistency.
 
deusex said:
Nope. My card count is less than the EPL average (granted it ain't the EPL but it's hardly excessive)
To each their own but I don't talk to teams prematch. They're big boys and know what is and isn't acceptable.
What would you even say? "If you say this I will do this"? That's just backing myself into a corner.
I am refereeing on 3 new leagues this year. I guarantee my card count will be lower next season.
If my cards count is high, it's because too many refs in my county don't sanction OFFINABUS or dissent (I see it every week on other matches)
Click to expand...

Do you perform a stud and jewellery check? Do you give the CAR's any advice? Do you speak to the CAR's in the presence of the Captains? Do you speak to the Captains about their roles and responsibilities?
When I turn up I am often told the ref last week didn't check our studs.
I wont bore you with exactly what I say in my pre-match but I definitely do not paint a black and white picture. The important bit is "do not swear at me or about me no matter how much you disagree with my decision and the same goes for the linesman"
 
McTavish said:
Do you say what will happen if they do swear? Why is swearing important?
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I do not say what will happen. Swearing is to be discouraged especially as most of my matches are near parks and/or houses. Swearing at me is a big NO NO.
"Good morning/afternoon, my name is Anthony, Please moderate your language and do not swear at me or about me no matter how much you disagree with my decision and the same goes for the linesman, play to the whistle, OK, have a good match, can I check studs and jewellery please" As I am going round checking I often get asked polite questions possibly because I have opened up a dialogue with them.
 
Anthony, IMO Players will then demand you caution an opposition player who swears after missing an open goal and it also fuels the myth that you have to swear at a referee to receive a YC.
Not really your fault, but the average football player is not that bright and will interpret ANYTHING you say to his own agenda.
I know maybe 5 players who I will literally blank for 90 mins and ignore any request for an explanation of a decision as they simply cannot have a decision explained to them without talking himself into the book. They think I'm being a d**k, I'm actully saving them £10
 
deusex said:
Anthony, IMO Players will then demand you caution an opposition player who swears after missing an open goal and it also fuels the myth that you have to swear at a referee to receive a YC.
Not really your fault, but the average football player is not that bright and will interpret ANYTHING you say to his own agenda.
I know maybe 5 players who I will literally blank for 90 mins and ignore any request for an explanation of a decision as they simply cannot have a decision explained to them without talking himself into the book. They think I'm being a d**k, I'm actully saving them £10
Click to expand...

I am not sure how you concluded that an opposition player will demand a YC of me every time a player swears. Sadly in the real world people swear at work so we can hardly expect them to stop swearing in a competitive situation. A player swearing loudly at himself will receive no more than a rebuke from me unless it becomes increasingly loud or persistent.
I agree about not bothering to explain every decision, they typically will take the opposite view of anything I say.
This forum proves to me the same thing over and over again - whilst we all agree to disagree on a consistent pre match ritual, we are setting ourselves out to be inconsistent in the players eyes before a ball is even kicked.
I presume as you dodged the question about studs and jewellery twice that you do not perform those checks?
 
Anthony said:
I am not sure how you concluded that an opposition player will demand a YC of me every time a player swears. Sadly in the real world people swear at work so we can hardly expect them to stop swearing in a competitive situation. A player swearing loudly at himself will receive no more than a rebuke from me unless it becomes increasingly loud or persistent.
I agree about not bothering to explain every decision, they typically will take the opposite view of anything I say.
This forum proves to me the same thing over and over again - whilst we all agree to disagree on a consistent pre match ritual, we are setting ourselves out to be inconsistent in the players eyes before a ball is even kicked.
I presume as you dodged the question about studs and jewellery twice that you do not perform those checks?
Click to expand...

Correct.
I also don't perform the respect handshake in respect leagues.
Only thing I check before a match is the goalnets and posts. Any jewellry I will pick up within 5 mins of the match.
I'm not even too sure what I would be looking for with studs. Studs will hurt if a player rakes them down your shin whatever type they are.
I'd be surprised if any player ever bemoaned the lack of consistency of refs BEFORE the match.
 
Your quote deusex; "It's also clear referees aren't doing their jobs in the other matches."
yet you are not doing a boot and jewellery check. How can you spot a necklace during play if it under a shirt and if you are looking that closely at players what are you missing elsewhere? If you spot the keeper has an earring that is a significant stoppage in the middle of a match. I am perplexed.
I have spotted and dealt with numerous players boots with multiple missing studs, worn down studs so the metal is showing and split boots - all unsafe for them and other players especially. Quick check for shin pads at the same time.
Do you inspect the field of play for dangerous objects and dog/animal foul? Please tell me you do and you just didn't mention it in your last post.
 
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