Higher bar for second yellow

[one]

There are arguments for and against having a higher bar for second yellow. I do have a higher bar for some offences only.

An interesting game I had tonight. Blue team playing with no subs. One of them came off midway through first hlaf injured while they were up 3-0 so they are one short. Hlaf time they lead 3-1. Red score early in second hlaf and its 3-2. Blue scores midway second hlaf for 4-2.
Throughout the second hlaf I have to hurry the blue keeper for restarts. Eventually in the 85th my patience wears out and I caution him for Y4 (C4). Opponents yell out that's his second. I pay no attention as I knew I had only cautioned one blue player prior to that and that was a field player. As I am recording this I realise it is the same player. He had switch with keeper at half time without telling me. This is an occasion I would have practiced a higher bar had I known it was the same player.
Funny enough the same opponent who was yelling that's his second was telling the blue captain that was harsh.
After the game blue captain was having a calm word with me about it. I made it clear to him it helps his team and the referee if he lets the referee know when they switch keepers at half time.

 

[bester]

With second yellows being reviewable by VAR you'd have thought there would be a slight upturn in second yellows given.

 

[RefereeX]

With second yellows being reviewable by VAR you'd have thought there would be a slight upturn in second yellows given.

Not sure I see any reason for it to make a difference.

VAR is only checking second yellow cards awarded, not missed 2nd yellows (unless I'm mistaken) and you wouldn't expect officials at that level to decided to give a 'just incase' second yellow in the hope VAR will intervene if they're wrong.

 

[RefereeX]

With regards to having a higher bar, I've always been taught that it's the way to go in the sense that there are lots of offences that can be cautions in one game if it needs it and not in others if it doesn't need it. These wouldn't really be 2nd yellows.
You want a 2nd yellow to be one that is obvious to the whole ground, not one that sometimes gets cautioned and sometimes doesn't. Purely because of the vastly bigger impact.

 

[bester]

@RefereeX One of the big reasons for being reluctant to give second yellows is the high consequence of getting it wrong.
A missed second yellow is preferable to an incorrect second yellow.

 

[one]

A missed second yellow is preferable to an incorrect second yellow.

Preferable for the referee?

Obviously for the said player and team. And clearly not for the oppoenets.

being reluctant to give second yellows is the high consequence of getting it wrong.

Wouldn't not give it also have a similar high consequence?

 

[bester]

@one Football is far more forgiving of missed second yellows than incorrect ones.
If it weren't you wouldn't have a var protocol which corrects one and not the other.

 

[one]

@one Football is far more forgiving of missed second yellows than incorrect ones.
If it weren't you wouldn't have a var protocol which corrects one and not the other.

Accept that point. It realy is not about impact or consequence, its about what footbal has come to accept or expect.

 

[DavidObs]

Accept that point. It realy is not about impact or consequence, its about what footbal has come to accept or expect.

My Ex PL mentor hated that/those expression(s) & I can understand why because it is rather vague whereas impact & consequences are much more specific.

 

[Tealeaf]

A related narrative that’s becoming more prevalent in the game - TV commentary to blame - is this idea that if a player has been cautioned their next offence *has* to be another caution, just because they’re already on one.

Don’t buy it. As you say, some fouls definitely so. Others not. Whether that’s the same as a higher bar, I’m not sure.

If I’ve cautioned for that sort of thing throughout the game, then gone.

If not, a gentle reminder. A careless fouls, and a more obvious reminder.

A reckless challenge that stands out as a caution, all on its own, or a blatant display of dissent like sarcastic applause. Easy dispatch.

Both my second caution sending offs came for these offences this past season.

 

[one]

My Ex PL mentor hated that/those expression(s) & I can understand why because it is rather vague whereas impact & consequences are much more specific.

I don't like it too but in a different way. What expects things because we lead them that way. Football expected 'minor' encroachments in penalties to be ignored. It expected the keeper 6 second to stretch, I mean reaaaaaally stretch, etc etc. Now these are wrong expectations that referees created and stuck to which forced authorities the force correct them.

There are other wrong expectations some still need force correction, like referees should have thick skin. And others not as important like you can take a throw in as far back as you want.

On impact or consequence, yes they are specific but at the risk of stating the obvious, giving the second yellow may have negative impact on one team, but not giving it will have as much negative impact on the other team.