The Ref Stop

Heading the ball back to keeper repeatedly (pass back / timewasting ?)

The Ref Stop
Mintyref said:
Two schools of thought......
It's a trick, therefore an IDFK and possible lemon, or, it's not. Guess which camp the traffic wardens are in........
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Its new year, they haven't spoiled anyones weekend for a few weeks!! Its catch up time!! :cool:
 
santa sangria said:
“Permissible tactic” can you see what you’ve done there?

If it’s a deliberate ploy, the LotG calls it a trick, it’s an offence.

I think we should be asking ”under what circs can a gk pick the ball up after kicking the ball to a def who plays it back to them?”

I think the answer is it can’t be deliberate. So it’s only OK if the def plays the ball to the GK unintentionally.
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If IFAB wanted the restriction to apply to all deliberate plays to the GK, that would have been easy--use play instead of kick. They didn't. So not every header to the GK can be considered a trick. (The trick wasn't even in the first implementation--it was added (i believe the next year) because crafty defenders flicked the ball to the head.) The trickery concept is narrow. I think we would all agree that if the defender was a foot away, it's pretty easy. But I would also hope that we would agree that if the GK punts the ball to midfield and a teammate whacks a contested header back to him, that is not trickery. The question is where the line is between those. I would suggest the conceptual line is where the ball has been played far enough by the GK to be open to reasonable challenge--as that is the whole point of getting it out of the GKs hands.

Fortunately, this is more of a theoretical question than a practical one. A clear word to the wise on a first occurrence (as someone suggested above) should suffice to prevent it from becoming a real problem.
 
socal lurker said:
If IFAB wanted the restriction to apply to all deliberate plays to the GK, that would have been easy--use play instead of kick. They didn't. So not every header to the GK can be considered a trick. (The trick wasn't even in the first implementation--it was added (i believe the next year) because crafty defenders flicked the ball to the head.) The trickery concept is narrow. I think we would all agree that if the defender was a foot away, it's pretty easy. But I would also hope that we would agree that if the GK punts the ball to midfield and a teammate whacks a contested header back to him, that is not trickery. The question is where the line is between those. I would suggest the conceptual line is where the ball has been played far enough by the GK to be open to reasonable challenge--as that is the whole point of getting it out of the GKs hands.

Fortunately, this is more of a theoretical question than a practical one. A clear word to the wise on a first occurrence (as someone suggested above) should suffice to prevent it from becoming a real problem.
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I think it's easy where to draw the line. You have to decide if the defender has headed the ball back to deliberately circumvent the laws.
If the contested header resulted in the ball going to the goalkeeper unintentionally then it's not an offence. If the defender was trying to head the ball back to circumvent the laws, but the header was contested, but the defender still won the header and headed the ball back, that's an offence.

I think you overcomplicate it by bringing in distance;)
 
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santa sangria said:
I think it's easy where to draw the line. You have to decide if the defender has headed the ball back to deliberately circumvent the laws.
If the contested header resulted in the ball going to the goalkeeper unintentionally then it's not an offence. If the defender was trying to head the ball back to circumvent the laws, but the header was contested, but the defender still won the header and headed the ball back, that's an offence.

I think you overcomplicate it by bringing in distance;)
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I think you over complicate this by considering a legitimate header a 'trick'.
 
bester said:
The goalkeeper could just bounce the ball off the defenders head every 6 seconds, as the goalkeeper can’t be challenged in the process of releasing the ball the attackers couldn’t do much about it.
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And this is why I feel the distance point, raised by @socal lurker I think, is indeed relevant. I'm pretty confident that no one on here is penalising for a goalkeeper throwing or kicking the ball 30 metres to a defender who then heads it back ... even if it happens repeatedly. So much skill involved and plenty of opportunity for other team to intervene. However a defender standing inches outside the Penalty Area and the keeper throwing / bouncing it off his head repeatedly .. sure we'd get involved.

So where to draw the line? For me, if it looks like a normal play, then it probably is ... if it looks like a trick, then intervene!
 
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I just hope none of the Premier League players read this forum (for USB ideas)
Based on their ignorance of the LOTG, I think we're safe ;)
 
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