A&H

Head injury concern.

B

brimac

New Member
Have just come back from my game today, Under 12s. In the first five minutes home keeper makes a great save but then smashes his head off the post. Coaches come on and after a few minutes they take him off and as they only have nie players they are now down to eight.
Ten minutes later the keeper returns but keeps holding is head and quite frankly didn't look well. I voiced my concerns several times to the coaches and was continually speaking to the keeper.
The away coach, and both sets of parents were more concerned and after a parent approached the home coach the lad was taken off again (the keepers parents weren't there). Could/should I have forced the coach to remove the player?
 
The Referee Store
brimac said:
Have just come back from my game today, Under 12s. In the first five minutes home keeper makes a great save but then smashes his head off the post. Coaches come on and after a few minutes they take him off and as they only have nie players they are now down to eight.
Ten minutes later the keeper returns but keeps holding is head and quite frankly didn't look well. I voiced my concerns several times to the coaches and was continually speaking to the keeper.
The away coach, and both sets of parents were more concerned and after a parent approached the home coach the lad was taken off again (the keepers parents weren't there). Could/should I have forced the coach to remove the player?
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This is definitely a safeguarding concern, as the manger should be telling his player that he should not be playing.
 
The problem was the lad kept saying he was ok, think he didn't want to let the team down as they only just had a bare 9 players.
 
brimac said:
The problem was the lad kept saying he was ok, think he didn't want to let the team down as they only just had a bare 9 players.
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Yeah but the manager has been trained so he should be telling the lad hes not ok to play on.
 
I agree but my question is could I have forced him to take the player off. I voiced my concern several times as did the away coach and several parents. I know the chairman of the club quite well so I am going raise the issue with him as it is a child welfare concern.
 
I think you need a ROC to support preventing him from playing. In the youth games I do (in the US), if a coach or referee sees sympto of a possible concussion, the player is done. No diagnosis, just any symptoms. While the rule creates some pressure, I think it is a good safety rule for youth sports.
 
brimac said:
I agree but my question is could I have forced him to take the player off. I voiced my concern several times as did the away coach and several parents. I know the chairman of the club quite well so I am going raise the issue with him as it is a child welfare concern.
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In short, no. It’s on the team to decide whether or not to take him off. I know it seems unethical but it is on them.

You’re limited in what you can do on the day. There are mechanisms for reporting safeguarding concerns, but only afterwards.
 
Tealeaf said:
In short, no. It’s on the team to decide whether or not to take him off. I know it seems unethical but it is on them.

You’re limited in what you can do on the day. There are mechanisms for reporting safeguarding concerns, but only afterwards.
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Exactly this. You can try urging common sense, you can certainly report after, but you don't have any remit to stop the player from coming back on.
 
Saturday, I insisted a player went off to be checked for a head injury. Moments later, I call him back on to the FOP, as you do. Unfortunately, no sooner was he back in the game and he headed the ball about 40 yards out of defence. Observer picked up on it 🤕
 
Big Cat said:
Saturday, I insisted a player went off to be checked for a head injury. Moments later, I call him back on to the FOP, as you do. Unfortunately, no sooner was he back in the game and he headed the ball about 40 yards out of defence. Observer picked up on it 🤕
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Read this a few times and I don't understand what the observer picked up on?
 
Big Cat said:
Saturday, I insisted a player went off to be checked for a head injury. Moments later, I call him back on to the FOP, as you do. Unfortunately, no sooner was he back in the game and he headed the ball about 40 yards out of defence. Observer picked up on it 🤕
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All I can assume he was called back on too soon when play was in that part of the pitch.
 
RustyRef said:
All I can assume he was called back on too soon when play was in that part of the pitch.
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Apparently so. He was involved in active play very soon after I allowed him back. Allegedly
Heading the ball half the length of the pitch maybe ehat drew attention although nobody other than the observer noticed AFAIK

On the subject of which.... I think players should only be allowed to return during a stoppage. Simples
 
Whoa now. Lets see. An u12 player is on the pitch and the referee has genuine concerns about the child having a head injury. I don't care, I ain't playing on with him on the pitch. This isn't about laws of the game or being a referee, this is just common sense. I'd rather be banned from officiating than risk a brain injury to a child.
 
Which is a great statement in principal, but so difficult in real life.

I've not been trained in signs of concussion as a referee, so any decision I have to make along those lines will be a) guesswork and b) only done in passing rather than at the side of the pitch by someone who will probably have more training in the matter than me. In the OP's case it seems pretty clear cut, but that won't always be true - so do I send away someone who says they're fine and who's manager says they are fine on a hunch?

Apart from anything else, that's accepting a burden of responsibilities should be falling on the referee that we are 100% not trained for. I don't want to set any precedent that it's my responsibility, because that implies I can be blamed if I get it wrong. Managers and physios are better trained and have better opportunities to make the call because they're not also trying to referee a match at the same time.
 
Absolutely @GraemeS it is difficult in real life. That's why I mentioned about us as referees having a "genuine concern". While head injuries are relatively common, if we have concerns about the welfare of a child, it is up to us primarily as responsible adults to step in.
What I do know is (i) there are too many coaches who get wrapped up in winning the game, they are looking to downplay any injury, and (ii) concussion symptoms can be delayed and concussion can be fatal.
Here in Ireland, the FAI have published information on concussion, and I'm sure the English FA have done the same. It's also part of our Child Welfare training.

In the OPs case, player "smacks his head" against goalpost and goes off. Comes back on, "holding his head" and "didn't look well".
Never in a month of Sundays would I have allowed it.

BTW: @brimac, I totally get why you allowed him back on. As you can see, there is differing opinions from more experienced referees. It's a hard thing as a referee to make a call that is not backed up in law.
 
Macca said:
In the OPs case, player "smacks his head" against goalpost and goes off. Comes back on, "holding his head" and "didn't look well".
Never in a month of Sundays would I have allowed it.

BTW: @brimac, I totally get why you allowed him back on. As you can see, there is differing opinions from more experienced referees. It's a hard thing as a referee to make a call that is not backed up in law.
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This is the key part I believe.

Fact is, few of us have any real medical expertise, including coaches and parents.

The kid may well have been playing the "look at me, I'm in pain but still heroically playing on" card or he may not have. As a referee, I'm making an (uninformed) judgement on what his actual behaviour is and what my eyes tell me above all else here. My guess is, in this particular circumstance, I'd be telling the coach that I wasn't comfortable refereeing a match in which he was still a part and advise him that he either comes off or the game can't continue. Irrespective of what the LOTG say, you're not obliged to continue refereeing in any match you're uncomfortable with in doing so.

If the kid's condition deteriorated and he ended up in hospital or worse, telling myself "Okay, yeah but I was correct in law" would be scant consolation as opposed to "why oh why didn't I just stop the game?". :(

Only my own take on it as ever ... :cool:
 
Macca said:
Absolutely @GraemeS it is difficult in real life. That's why I mentioned about us as referees having a "genuine concern". While head injuries are relatively common, if we have concerns about the welfare of a child, it is up to us primarily as responsible adults to step in.
What I do know is (i) there are too many coaches who get wrapped up in winning the game, they are looking to downplay any injury, and (ii) concussion symptoms can be delayed and concussion can be fatal.
Here in Ireland, the FAI have published information on concussion, and I'm sure the English FA have done the same. It's also part of our Child Welfare training.

In the OPs case, player "smacks his head" against goalpost and goes off. Comes back on, "holding his head" and "didn't look well".
Never in a month of Sundays would I have allowed it.

BTW: @brimac, I totally get why you allowed him back on. As you can see, there is differing opinions from more experienced referees. It's a hard thing as a referee to make a call that is not backed up in law.
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As I say, it's fairly clear-cut in the OP's case and it sounds pretty negligent to try and get that specific child to keep playing.

But most situations will be more marginal than that, and I don't really want to be put in the position where I'm expected to make those medical decisions, especially on top of everything else I'm trying to do. We need help from on high like temporary subs to alleviate the "tactical pressure" to get the player back on without taking proper care, and then when that system is properly in place, we need to trust the team physio and manager to make the correct decision - I don't see any situation where the referee should be the primary decision maker in terms of potential concussion.
 
I can’t recall if it is a California law or a US law, but coaches and referees for youth sports here are mandated to take concussion training. I think it’s a good idea. (I remember going back in the game as a teenager with a concussion--well, trying to, as I almost fell down trying to run onto the field.) coaches and referees aren’t expected to diagnose a concussion, but to recognize common syptoms and not let players back in the game if they see symptoms. This falls mainly on the coaches, as they are the ones who will be actually checking on the kid, but if refs sees symptoms they are expected to not let the player back in.
 
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